Turning Connection into Conversions: How Chalets Hygge Achieved 70% Direct Bookings with Kerri Gibson

Alex Husner  
Welcome to Alex & Annie: the real woman of vacation rentals. I'm Alex, and I'm Annie, and we are joined today with Kerri Gibson, who is the co founder of experiences hygge. Kerri, it's so good to see you today. Hi ladies,

Kerri Gibson  
thank you so much for having me. I have been listening to your podcast Since I fell into the short term rental world back in 2018 I think,

Annie Holcombe  
Wow. Well, thank you for listening. We appreciate that. And so that was going to be my first question right off the bat. So we talk to people all the time, and very few people consciously make the decision to get into vacation rentals. So you said you fell into it. What were the circumstances that made you fall into

Kerri Gibson  
vacation rentals? Well, yes, there was a series of trips, stumbles, a few tears involved, and then ultimately finding my place in hospitality. But yeah, I actually found my way into the world of short term rental after I left my corporate job in 2017 just with a big burnout and really feeling that I needed to reset my life to align with what I now know is more my core values, because I was feeling really once I found out was really burned out, is because I was on a track that didn't align With my core values. But after I left my job, I took a year sabbatical, and one of the things we did during that time was we bought a house my partner and I in the neighborhood that we lived in that needed renovating, and it was something we had talked about, you know, just on and off, because we're both in the tech world, always behind computers, and we thought, oh, we should buy a house to renovate, just to have something fun to do. And all of a sudden, I had time on my hands, and no idea for sure what I was going to do. So we bought one, and I spent the nine month, next nine months, renovating it with a contractor, and we were playing with the idea of selling it, but we were also knew we were in a short term rental zoned area, and I was just too attached to it after that renovation process, so we turned it into a short term rental, and that was in 27 years later, or we never stopped.

Alex Husner  
Wow, wow. Well, I'm sure you've learned a lot in that journey, though, right? I mean, it's like things are just moving so fast, and once you're in, you kind of just have to get it and figure it out. But, I mean, once you decided you wanted to make this into a real business, you know, where did you go? And you mentioned you watched our podcast. But, I mean, what were the steps you kind of went through to figure out, okay, what do I need to do first? Like, what tech I need to get? Like, what was the first beginning part?

Kerri Gibson  
Oh my so while I had absolutely zero experience in hospitality, aside from being a very frequent Road Warrior and traveler and my corporate job, and of course, when I was on vacation, I didn't know anything about hospitality, but what I did know was a lot about building businesses, being in tech. That had been my job. I was in the product management executive team, and so that's what we do, is we go out and we figure out problems, how to build products to solve problems. And so figuring out how to solve problems was nothing that I was scared of. And so once I figured out, because like everybody else. When I first started, I just threw my property on Airbnb, and I said, let's see what happens. Let's see if this is a real thing. And as it turns out, it was a real thing with real opportunity. So I was like, Okay, if this is going to be a business and possibly something that will keep me from having to go back into the corporate world, I need to dig in, and I need to figure out how to do this the right way. So, I mean, I started, as you as I would have started any business just kind of digging into the legal side of it. You know, what are all the registrations I have to do? What are the permits that I have to have? What are the tax requirements, you know, getting my head around all of that. And at that time, I would say, so Quebec has always had short term rental regulations, but so I we've been regulated since day one, but it was also starting to be a hot topic in Montreal. So immediately, when I came in, it was when it was kind of short term rentals were really sitting in the hot seat. So I knew right away that I needed to do it the legal way if I was going to succeed. So I would say that's where I started. I spent the first year really understanding the legalities of the business, how to run it in a way that honors the community. And as soon as I figured out all of my groundwork of just establishing a real business, I knew that I needed to get started on building an independent business separate from the OTAs, which is what led me down the tech stack journey.

Annie Holcombe  
So the tech stack brought you to logify. Is that, was that the first one that you took a look at? Or did you look at several different systems? Oh,

Kerri Gibson  
goodness. So this was in 2018 and I looked at several different systems. And. I think none of them, some of not all of them, not some of them are no longer in existence. Like I think, yeah, that was a big contender at the time. I don't think they even exist anymore. There was one sort of, I can't remember. There were several that I looked at that never made it past the basic stage. But I would say the big contenders I looked at at that time were logify, owner, res and a few others I don't remember, but yeah, I had my my spreadsheet, my decision making spreadsheet on my requirements, because I love a good spreadsheet on what I needed out of a tech stack. In addition to needing a PMS and a CMS, I also needed a website, which was a big contender for me, so I had slowly built out just kind of using Airbnb at the time as my foundation for what are some of the requirements if I was going to do it outside of Airbnb, and then just using my knowledge of where did I think I wanted my business to go and what were the components I needed? And I interviewed several and, yeah, I actually ended up obviously going with logify. And the reason I picked logify was because they were a website tool when I use them, that was starting down the PMs and CMS channels. So our route, and they were very open with their roadmap. So I was seeing there was not a lot of tech. What there was in tech was young, and I liked that logify was so transparent with me about where they were going and what was and was not on their roadmap. So, so, yeah, I ended up going with logify and started building my website, and then was able to start onboarding all the pieces to where logify is today.

Alex Husner  
Oh, great, great. And I was just looking on your LinkedIn, it says that you get 70% of your bookings Direct, which that's That's an impressive number. I mean, there's a lot of managers that started about same time you did that are, you know, in the single digits, or maybe, you know, 10 to 20% so maybe tell us a little bit about how you've how you've done it. That's, you know, what we love talking about the most is direct bookings.

Kerri Gibson  
So I love talking direct bookings as well. Um, so of course, you have to have the tech stack to in order to support that. So our tech stack, I would consider logify, to be the heart and soul of our tech stack. And then any software we use outside of that has to plug into it. But technology only does so much for you. It handles the automation, it handles your presence, but you still have to have a strategy to go behind it, and I think that's one reason that we continue to win and grow in the direct book strategies, because I spend a lot of time working on what is that? What are my marketing channels? What is my messaging? Who are my avatars? And keeping that constantly fresh and going? So my website, what it was, what it is today is not what it was when I started, and my social media, what it is today is not what it was when I started, and it's just the constant iterative steps of putting in place a strategy and moving forward a little bit.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, no, I mean, and that makes sense. Of course, you know, you just you learn by doing and trying and refining it. You got a lot of companies get stuck in the kind of gray area of they want to do everything, and so they'll do a little bit of everything, and it's like, okay, we're kind of checking the boxes, but you really have to hone in on what's working and actually have a strategy behind it before you just jump into the tactics too. You know, that's kind of the most important part with it. But where are you driving most of your traffic from to get to that 70%

Kerri Gibson  
so we have we 40% of our guests are return guests. So right there that is a huge layer. So yeah, yes. And that's the low hanging fruit that I think everybody can forget about or overlook when they're starting to think about a direct book strategy, because thinking about it is very overwhelming. It's like, okay, I'm sitting at, you know, 01, 2% you know, today from those who just happen to take on the phone. And how do I get to the next level? So actually, knowing where your gas are coming from is super important. And as you start to build out your marketing strategy, you'll learn what does and doesn't work. And I quickly am looking at our statistics, saw that we were getting 40% return guests, and that is the lowest hanging fruit that anybody can go after, and it's an easy way to start your direct book strategy, because they're guests you already have a relationship and a connection to, so you don't have to have this whole robust social media and Google ads and SEO tactics to start going after those return guests. And after that, it's social media that brings the biggest number of our direct books. And addition to like just having a social media presence, we do. A lot of collaborations with influencers and content creators, but we also do a lot of social media work with what I call partner marketing, which is our tourism boards and other local small businesses that are bringing people in for experiences like for us, example, it's Nordic Spas. A lot of people come here for the Nordic spa experience. So, you know, I'll partner. I have one that I partner with, so I sit side by side with them on their page and on their social media. So So knowing where they're coming from. So for us, it's strong return guests and making sure that you make it easy for them to find you to rebook. And second is knowing that social media and where on social media are they coming from? And that really just takes testing until, you know. But I did find that for us, partner marketing and collaborations are really strong social media driver that then drive to a direct book.

Annie Holcombe  
So for you guys, that's a very outdoorsy market, right? So it's a lot of, I would say, Do you have a lot of like Gen Z millennial travelers that are coming through, actually.

Kerri Gibson  
So UGA is the, it's the concept of finding joy and contentment and the cozy moments and often that's surrounded by nature. Yeah, that's a it's a concept that Philip and I discovered when we were in Norway for his 50th birthday, and we were like, the jour de vivre is just so much different than anywhere else, and, you know, and it's, you know, digging into it. It's a lifestyle philosophy that they really live by. And so, so, yeah, yeah. So we knew that we wanted to create something that would help people feel that, when they come and they arrive, they feel disconnected and able to spend time with their loved ones when they're there and with nature, because we are in ski Outdoor Resort areas. So of course, we intertwine nature in with that. And the majority of our customer avatar is going to be the millennials and Gen Xers. So it tends to be people that are looking for adventure and experience and something to have, but kind of, you know, in a low key way, like relaxing and enjoying and just being in the moment and sitting with a book, going to a spa, maybe taking an afternoon hike, but not necessarily like out looking, you know, for like, the biggest adventure to have to go viral with, if that makes sense. So those of us that are more like, you know, like we want some activity when we want some calm, but we also appreciate the tranquility and the calmness of being on vacation as well. Yeah.

Annie Holcombe  
And I should have said Jenna, Gen Z, and I think I said Gen X, right? Yeah, I don't know. There's too many gens to worry about here. Either way, it sounds spectacular,

Alex Husner  
so easy to remember that

Annie Holcombe  
I'm a Gen Z and I aren't. I'm a Gen X, and I want to be a Gen Z, because I don't know whatever. I'm

Kerri Gibson  
a solid Gen X, and I actually love my being a Gen X.

Alex Husner  
I was on your website too. And for anybody listening, you've got to check out their site. It's and the reason why we're saying the name, or we feel like it sounds strange to us. It's hookah, but it's spelled h, y G G E, and so their website is chalets, h, y g g, h, y G, G e.com, but you're about us. Page is so amazing. And like you're you tell the story of you and your partner, and you know the trials and your dad saying to you, you know you're wasting your life away, as in corporate America. And we just got back from Italy last week, and on our panel, or our presentation, we talked about on your about page, share your story, let people know who you are and why they're staying with you. And I think a lot of companies are just really hesitant to go in that direction. But just wanted to call that out, because I think what you've put together here, it just it shows heart and soul, that of what you have built into the business. Thank

Kerri Gibson  
you, Alex. I understand people's hesitation to, like, put that out there and be, you know, vulnerable, or maybe feel like they're talking about themselves a little bit too much, which was my hesitation, was talking a little bit about myself, they're here to be on vacation and to joy and relax, not here to learn about me. But the more time I spent with our guests, I found that actually wasn't true, because people want to spend two of the most valuable resources that they have in their lives, which is their time and their money, but they want to spend it with people that they can connect with, you know, and so when you're a small business, I think connection is the most important thing that we have to make it through, because being a small business owner can be really lonely, and it can be tough financial. At times, and you can kind of feel stuck on your own at times. So building community through your customers, your guests, your other small businesses within the community, I think, is so important. And when your guests feel that they can connect with you, I think that brings down a whole lot of barriers for them from, you know, when we pick a place to stay and go on vacation, I'm going through it right now. I'm actually booking my vacation, you know, to go to Italy with my parents at the end of the month. And as I'm going through and looking at the sites of places of where to stay, I'm so scared of making the wrong decision and that we're going to get there and be so disappointed and let down. And I found that when you let people into who you are, into who your story is at the beginning, and they connect with it, they instantly feel more at ease and like it's such such a right tone to build that level of trust and credibility right from the beginning. And it's so funny, because for our motel website, we recently launched a brand new site, because it's a new property, about five or six months ago. But I was on a call with the girl who does our website. She's like, Carrie, you're, you are the number one ranking site thing a page on the website right now. Carrie Gibson, Ugo, you know? Yeah. And I was like, Really, and she's like, Yeah. She said, I think it's just, you know, because we've done this really nice about you, Paige, and I think people want to know who they're coming to see and who they're trusting with their time and their money. So I found that to be super interesting. But yeah, so I definitely thinking about us is a good investment

Annie Holcombe  
anyone to make? Well, building that trust is so important, and I think that's one thing that we talk about in our industry, is that we don't have a big box brand behind us that can build that trust with the consumer. So that's where you know, for you as a manager, you have to do that on your own, but you've let people in and they feel more comfortable, and they're also, they're also, I think, when people feel like they trust you and they know you, they're less likely to be a bad actor in terms of, like, how they're going to handle the rental, or, you know, are they going to do things that they shouldn't be doing in the rental? Are they going to, like, stiff you for a, you know, a cancelation, or those kind of things. So I think it's, it's super important to do that, but I was curious. So when you started out, you had the one property. How many do you have now, not including the the motel,

Kerri Gibson  
we have six short term rental properties. Okay, okay, and they are all properties. So we're owner operators. They're all properties that we acquired, I would say, at very good prices, because they were in distress. They were distressed properties that needed a lot of attention. So there's a lot of blood sweat here's literally blood. I probably hammered my finger, a dick out, nicked myself, but in each property that we do, and so that's one thing that we have done, is scale very slowly and intentionally, because, number one, I feel that that's one of the reasons I left corporate was getting to be too far away from the people aspect, and that's what I love about hospitality. So by scaling slowly, you know, we're able to apply every lesson that we've learned from renovating into the next one, also as owner operators. That gives us time to come up with the money to renovate each and every single one of them. But yeah, and so I find that because we have scaled slowly and then in time, we've been able to build not only the properties and make them better and better as we go along, but we've been able to build that tech and that guest experience to scale alongside of it, because and you're so right. I mean, the most important thing we have as small businesses in the hospitality industry is that trust factor. And you have about two seconds to establish that trust factor from the first time they come into contact with your brand. And for some people, that's when they hit their website, and for some people it's when they hit their social media. And for some people it's when they walk in the property, because if they're not the one that did the booking and did all the communication and everything in advance, the first time they walk in the property is their first experience with you. So like every single one of those steps is trust building within the guest experience, and they all need to be your best foot forward as much as possible.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, absolutely. And you had on a really good point earlier about, you know, the lowest hanging fruit is to get more repeat business out of the guests that you already have. And we've talked about that many times on the show and different podcasts that we've been on also. And yeah, I think it is. It's depending on the area that you're in. In some areas it's more complicated if it's not an area that people go often to, but where you are, where Annie is, where I am, we're all in destinations that people come year after year. I was just at the airport a couple weeks ago and met a gentleman that was down here on a golf trip that golf packages are. Big thing in Myrtle Beach, and his group has been coming down for 50 years, and they come every year. And obviously people cycle in and out of who's coming, but it's, you know, there's, there's a lot of, a lot of destinations that people return to. And I think it is sometimes overlooked, as you know, the easiest, lowest barrier to entry and cost effective way to get more, you know, repeat business. And then also, of that repeat business, who can they refer you to? Who? I mean, they've obviously have friends and family that are similar, similar demographically. So it's like, how can you really leverage those audiences? But I would curious just to know, I mean, what are some tips that you've seen that have worked really well to actually get those people to book again, like in the home and the communications once they leave that kind of stuff,

Kerri Gibson  
oh for sure. So when a guest leaves your property, that's just your opportunity to continue to expand the relationship, to extend it like it shouldn't end like when they check out. It shouldn't have been. Thank you for our guest. We'll see you. You should have the as much as possible, continue the conversation with them and ways that they've raised hands to and so one of the most important things that I find that people can do is make sure that people know once they're in your property, if they haven't direct book. You know, the opportunities to direct book, the opportunities to stay engaged with you and your brand, whether that's you know, QR codes for your social media, one of the things we used to do back in the old day, old school was leave a little sign behind card to sign up for our email list. And now we use stay five for that, but everything that you can to let them know along the way that staying engaged with you is easy, and being able to stay top of mind. And also, honestly, I'm just going to go back to good old we offer all of our return guests a 10% off. You know, going forward, I know that people have mixed feelings on that, but for us, it's been really great, and building a very strong return guest base that we also have confidence in. We know they're going to stay and they don't even think about staying anywhere else, like when they're going to come to the region, because, like you mentioned, we are a return region for so many people, year after year after year, so just taking off the table that they're going to consider, oh, maybe we should go see what else is out there. So that's one that I find works. But then also after they leave, one of the things we've invested in over the past year is not just monthly emails, but automation campaigns. Now, because I was doing a monthly newsletter and that was all but now we have, actually, we found automation campaigns for once a guest leaves that are executed. So a reminder in every season, also, like we call it their ugaversary, when they came this time last year, you were with us that have given us their birthdays, or we know they came for a celebration, like a reminder, just a happy birthday, happy anniversary, you know, so just finding those ways to automate, and I don't have to remember all the time to sit down and say, Oh, it's 20 guests prior guest birthdays or anniversaries or whatever, it's all stored within, you know, the email system, and all of that is automated. And I think the way that you frame the communication going forward is super important. Like Ray ours feels like you're getting a letter from your friend, because I make sure to write it in a way, like, if I was sitting down having coffee, there was nothing corporate feeling or uptight feeling, or even any overt call to actions, but just more, like a friendly conversation of like, Hey, here's what's going on. Oh my gosh, there's this, there's this cool new business that opened up. Oh, my goodness, it's October. It's perfect hiking season, and we should go pick, you know, apple picking. Oh, you know, just kind of like memories instead of like strong Oh, we have a big 20% discount because we're, you know, last minute. But making all of our communications are more about building trust than creating sales and calls to action.

Annie Holcombe  
I love that you, that you touched on kind of that, that sense of touching your guests through their whole journey, including why they're there with you. Like branding it, you know, having some communication or some touch points in the property. I just stayed in a rental in Italy, and the property management is, group is of, I guess, fairly large within Italy, there was no branding whatsoever in the entire property. Their login for their E their Wi Fi was 20 characters. It was 20 numbers, when it could have just easily been their company name, you know, like, there was just so many missed opportunities that I felt like, why are we still having these conversations with people? Like, you're just missing, you're just missing the mark. You know, like, so, so much. How much of that automation? I'm assuming that all of that goes through what you can do within logify,

Kerri Gibson  
it does. And so I just want to reiterate on that, Annie that like, people think, Oh, it's just details. It's no big deal, but it's the details that make the difference. It's the. Oh, yeah, absolutely devil and the return Gasser, it is so true, but yes, exactly what you said. So in order for me to onboard a technology, it has to integrate with logify, because I consider logify to be my system of record. That is where everything sits, and everything then gets pushed or pull pushed out of logify into a connecting software, or pull back into logify so that I have everything related there. So for example, logify is they have some really good guest management and automation and communication. But for me, I wanted to take it to the next level. I wanted to build whole entire campaigns around it. I wanted to be able to offer upsells and some some guidebooks and some different ways for guests to communicate with us all through one stream. So I actually we use Enzo as our guest experiences platform, and it is completely plugged in with logify. They work one on one, so as soon as for me, a guest reservation comes in and it's confirmed, it moves over to Enzo, and that's where the guest experience is handled from there on out. And then Enzo pushes back into logify, everything I need to keep in that guest record. But yeah, it's, I think that is one of the powers that we're seeing of technology as it's grown, because it's changed so much in the past seven years, is having that heart and soul and point of truth for your tech stack. Because I don't believe coming from technology and a background, I don't believe for a small business, there's one software that can be everything you possibly need it to be, because all of our businesses are as unique as our guests are. I mean, you know, and that's the lovely thing of hospitality, is we all have the opportunity to build a business that matches our passions and our skill sets and where we want to go, and there's no software that's ever going to be able to do that. So I think one of the most important things that you can do when picking your PMS, your system of record, is look at that marketplace to see everything that's out there, and then it plugs in. So while maybe you start with just the basics, that when you're ready to branch out into a more robust they're there. They've got a partner that can work with you, because I don't want logify to be a guest experiences platform expert, because that's completely different than being a property management expert, right? So, so yeah, so as soon as I was ready to start investing into that, like next level guest experience, where everything's automated. Everything's easy, no matter how they want to communicate with us, whether it all comes in through one channel in one stream, and I think that that's important for our guests, because it doesn't matter if they send us a text, a WhatsApp, an email, something off of our blog site, it all feeds into the same thing, so that we can handle that guest seamlessly and see everybody who's already responded to them and what's been said, and I think that makes a big difference.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, it does. And you think about it, you left corporate America because you were burnt out. And we see a lot of people that get into short term rentals, thinking it's this easy, breezy business, and then they get burnt out on that when they were already burnt out from the prior career. So that's where the tech really is super important. And you know, when, when good tech is working? Well, you shouldn't, you shouldn't even know it's there, right? It's just, it's in the background. It's the enabler that's letting you provide your way of doing business and hospitality. But it's, it shouldn't be something that you're constantly having to fix, and, you know, work on and, you know, keep troubleshooting. And I've got plenty of clients I work with that. That's what we do all day long. That's good to hear that you've got it set up right between those two systems. But I'm curious too, is there any other, any other tools in your tech stack that you use?

Kerri Gibson  
Oh, my goodness, yes. I have a lovely tech stack, I should have pulled up my document, but yeah, I so our business operations, I think, is our next big hub that I need to find something for, because right now we're doing it a lot of self management when it comes to things like accounting and dynamic pricing. We have a bunch of individual solutions and task management and calendar management that I feel that we're managing all those completely separately. So what we have right now that I have all these individuals I'm we use, of course, price labs for for dynamic pricing. I absolutely love that we are all we use QuickBooks for our accounting software. We use both Yale and remote lock for our guest access portals. We use stay fi for our marketing for a collection of emails, and then stay five recently or in the past year, they started building out the actual email. Campaign capability, so we're able to let MailChimp go, and now we're using stay five for all of our email automation and campaigns. We use a lot of Zapier so that we can build connections where we need to and do some automations. But I honestly our tech stack is something that is in constant evolution as more and more capabilities come out. And, you know, some softwares grow, so you can take away some of the ancillary products, like right now we are managing, or get our team calendar on Google Calendar, and it's become such a nightmare as our properties grow, as our team grows so. So those are things we'll be looking to weave out. We built our own tech solution, our own integrations to do that. But I think the constant finessing of the tech stack, like you said, Alex, when it's right and it works, it works really well. It's amazing, but you do have to like tech is constantly releasing updates of things that are happen or make better. So it's that constant. I do find that I spend a good amount of time, like, making sure I keep up with my product updates and constantly figuring out which products do I still need. What are the big holes that I have, especially AI like, that's a big everybody now has AI solutions, and there's some, you know, in their products somewhere, and it's one I'm feeling overwhelmed with right now on, like, what is the the AI solution that we want to use for guest response? And what is the AI solution that we want to use for automation of accounting practice, for business ops, you know, things like that. It's constantly evolving.

Annie Holcombe  
Alex, another, another full time job that you have to, have to, like, monitor all that. But I was curious. Um, so you bought a motel. How many units is this motel that you're you brought in? It is

Kerri Gibson  
currently it was 16 when we bought it. We've added one room. It's 17, and we'll add one more. So it'll be 18 when we're all done, it'll Hotel.

Annie Holcombe  
I've talked to more and more people, and it's very interesting to me, because we've been, there's been a lot of talk about the hotel groups coming into vacation rentals and trying to be in that space. But I've talked to more and more people that are smaller, smaller hosts and operators. Maybe they've got, you know, five to 10 units, and there's these little road these motels and these really quaint markets where they're just run down. And so they buy them, and they renovate them, they theme them out, and they just really take all of what they've learned from being an individual property host and kind of put that in layer that into a motel, hotel operation. But for you, was that an easy add in for like, was logify flexible enough? Like, I don't Are you going to run it like a motel? Are you running it like each room is an independent rental, or kind of a combination of both.

Kerri Gibson  
So we are running at like a motel as far as reservations go. So Goodness gracious, we have learned so much the past year. So while they short term rental and motel, hotel do have a lot in common as far as serving a place for travelers to stay, what we have discovered is the guests are completely different on the experience they're looking for. The level of engagement is completely different. The length of the reservations is completely you know, it's a lot more ops and guest management than a short term rental is a lot more. And motels are. You manage them by the room type, whereas a short term rental you manage by the unit. And so, like you might have three sets of five, so a five queen bed, a five King, five King beds and five double beds. And so the calendar management on that is completely different than on a short term rental. So we, we have had to use, we're using a different property management system that is specific for motels and hotels. However, in order for me to you to pick that system I had, I made sure that all of the tech that I use behind the scenes of logify, I could use behind the scenes with MUSE so and I could use my ends and my guest communication platform. I could use price love, my dynamic pricing. And so I'm trying to unify that tech stack as much as I can behind the scenes, which again, is why the marketplace is very, very important, because you do want to be able to plug into different systems as needed. But yeah, there is currently not a property management system that serves both the motel, the small motel hotel, and short term rental space. And I think that's because it's a new shift we're starting to see in the industry, where those of us that have been in short term rental are starting to blur those lines between what is short term rental and what is a motel, hotel. And like we're starting to bring some of that expectation and some of those best practices that we use into the motel. So yeah, I think as those lines are starting to blur, there's going to start to be some shifts in tech as well, because having gone with a motel solution. PMS, I find it to be too robust for us for it's too complicated for small of a motel as we. Are, you know, and so in my dream world, logify comes up market a little bit to address those needs, as opposed to a big motel system coming down market to try to fit into it. Because once you're in the big hospitality brand mindset, it's hard to come down into the small so, so yeah. So that is a current gap in the tech space between for those looking for hotel, motel, you do have to think about your tech stack.

Annie Holcombe  
Yeah, good news is, a lot of lot of the short term rental. PMS is so are getting they deal with that like Alex and I, both came from markets and companies that had hotel like inventory, so we were pretty adept at doing short term rentals. But also, you know, selling it and monitoring and marketing. It kind of like a hotel, because we had depth of inventory in a building, and so a lot of systems are starting to see that they can get volume by being able to do that. I would imagine a lodge, if I understands that that's a gap, and we'll address that for you. Toot sweet, right?

Kerri Gibson  
Yes, actually, I've had said they've reached out to me for several conversations on that, because, yeah, when I went down so, so, yeah, I do believe, like, that's the one thing I do love about launch by in any software provider you go with being transparent about their roadmap is, like, very important. If someone's not, if a tech vendor is not willing to show you their roadmap, or they're not willing to be upfront about, yes, we're going to do this? No, that's not a priority. Then I would run in the other direction, because that means they're just willing to feed you something to get you on board. I would rather a tech provider say to me, no, we're not going to do that. That doesn't mean I'm that means if I do decide to go with them, I just know that's a gap I need to fill, and I'm okay with that. Like as knowing, like I said, there's no tech that does everything. I just need to be clear about what are the capability gaps that I need to be able to fill?

Alex Husner  
I'd love to see the spreadsheet that you put together back in the day to try and compare it to, because I think that comes up often at conferences, and there's a few different consultants out there that work with people to go through that process. But there are a lot of things that you have to think about making that decision. And I think the roadmap is a really smart one that probably a lot of companies don't necessarily ask that. I mean, they might ask, you know, do you have this integration or that integration? But there you really need to have those conversations with the PMS is the most important tech that you're going to buy, so understanding what their goal is, not even just for the roadmap, but for the vision for the company where they're going, you know, make sure they're going to be in business in a few years, not like the companies you mentioned the other day. Of course, nobody has that on their roadmap to go out of business, but, you know, just understanding what the founder vision there is pretty important too. But why don't you switch gears with you a little bit. And, you know, just the area that you're in, it's, it's different than we're in. But I'm wondering, do you have any like, what's like the craziest guest story that you have for somebody staying in one of the chalets?

Kerri Gibson  
Oh, my goodness, a crazy guest story. I'm gonna sound so boring because we have such really good gas. I don't think that Okay. Here's one. Okay, this was back in the day from when we first started. So we are our Shelleys are in a mature forest area, so we do not have outdoor fire pits. So someone decided that they wanted to have an outdoor fire anyway, so they piled up wood and they literally set our yard on fire, started a bonfire, and then they left $20 on the table and said, Here's for regressing the land.

I honestly feel like we have such good guests, like when everyone's telling their horses, I'm like, oh my god, we're so lucky.

Alex Husner  
And that's that speaks to, obviously, your processes and how you're vetting guests, how you're communicating with them, like you said earlier, that they feel like they know you. So there's a little bit more of a connection there to not come in and trash the place or doing anything crazy, except for burning, burning the lawn down.

Kerri Gibson  
But I try to be as clear as we can, like, in our initial communication about what is our area and what who we want to bring in. Like, yeah. Like, I'm not saying like, come here. Like, literally, this is, if you're looking for a calm, quiet place within a neighborhood, and you're not, you're going to respect the silence. Like, I'm very, very clear on what this is not. And I tell them, like, I'm all down for a great party, a great birthday celebration, blah, blah, blah. This is not the place for that. Like, you know you want to come, yeah, when you want to come relax from that birthday party, and you know, we would love to have you, you know? And I find that people also appreciate that, because I haven't kept track of it, but there are a number of people that have said, Okay, this is not the right place for us or whatnot, for this event. But then they come back later and they're like, Hey, we were. Opportunity. Two years ago, we were looking at it, but now it's just me and my partner. We want just a chill weekend, you know, so people appreciate, I think, the transparency up front and I let them know the like we're on it. We have noise detectors, we have outside cameras looking at the driveways, you know, like we're on it, so you're not going to get away with it. Yeah, no,

Alex Husner  
that's smart.

Annie Holcombe  
Have a question, did the people that burned the yard, were they ever, did they come back or they're not a repeat?

Kerri Gibson  
They probably were, like, into it enough to know, like, this is a wanted time, not the $20

Annie Holcombe  
was going to cover at least. I mean, you should have said, well, we'd be happy to, like, have you come stay with us again at a 10% discount, and you can re sod the grass.

Alex Husner  
We'll make sure we get you a house with a regular fire pit next time

Kerri Gibson  
uninvited people from coming back like I if I have guests that I don't want to come back, I will send them an email off the follow up and say thank you so much for being our guest. We appreciate you giving us a try, but I don't think we're a good fit for you. So yeah, please. You know, I chat. GPT helped me put it the last one I do a lovely way, but respectfully, don't ever come back.

Annie Holcombe  
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I guess you have to worry about, you know, a lot of managers have to worry about breaking up with owners, you know. But because you you just, you own all your properties, you just have to worry about breaking up with guests. So

Kerri Gibson  
yeah, and I will break up with guests. I've broken up with a few this year, you know. And it's yeah, it to me, it's not, I didn't get in this to be super stressed. So if a guest is coming, I broke up with one three year guest this year was like, I just can't anymore. I'm so sorry.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, well, that's that shows the power of the CRM too, right? So it's like when they call back or email and they want to book again, like making sure you have those notes, and you know that this is not the guest that you want to have. And that one thing that we used to always do is if a guest, you know, asked for a discount, if we gave them a discount. And if while they were in the property, I mean, if they had a bunch of service calls, of things that was like, you know, their issues, or things that they ruined when they call back next year, if we're still going to rent to them, we're not giving them a discount, you know. I mean, like, you just, you have to kind of draw the line at some point. And if they're that bad, you just say you can't rent to them again. But it, it's always something, you know?

Kerri Gibson  
And my my cleaning team is good, like, they will tell me, we would like you to uninvite this guest, yeah. And sometimes it's just that they're really messy. And I'm like, Yeah, I get it. However, they spend $10,000 a year with us, and it's just a really big clean every time they leave nothing for money. So we're gonna clean really hard.

Annie Holcombe  
So Carrie, what is next for you guys? So you got this motel? Are you looking to expand, buy more properties, branch into the US, like, what's next for

Kerri Gibson  
you guys? Oh, my goodness. So it's, I don't know, a good answer.

Alex Husner  
Yeah. It's honest.

Kerri Gibson  
We're gonna continue like, I think we have, realistically, another 18 months to get this motel to where we want it to be, and we do everything ourselves, like I said, we we do the renovations, we install all the ops, we're gonna install the team, and it's we're gonna get it to an experience where I would want to vacation, all said and done before we move on. And then at that point, we'll see, I mean, we have said several times, after a renovation, okay, that's it, we're done. You know? We're just gonna ride this one out. And after about three to six months, we're like, we're kind of bored. What are we gonna do now? So we need to be passionate about it. We need to be excited about it. And yeah, when it stops being fun and exciting, is when we'll start to consider, you know, should we be in the industry anymore? Is it time to sell? Or, you know, what does that look like? But for now, we love it. We take it as it comes. We'll always scale thoughtfully, because I want any customer at any time to reach out to me if they want, no matter how much team we have in place, I still want to be on the ground. I still want to be meeting our guests. I still want to be accessible. So, yeah, so I have no aspirations of building this billion dollar company. I just have aspirations of creating as long as people love what we're doing and we love what we're doing, and then opportunity comes along that we are passionate about, we'll keep going.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, that's a great plan. Sometimes the best plans don't need to be so, you know, thoughtfully thought out. I mean, what you're doing and how you execute is obviously done very thoughtfully. And if you're enjoying it, then keep doing it. And when opportunities come up, you take them, or you're leaving, but it's and, yeah, that's life, I guess, for you.

Kerri Gibson  
But, you know, I learned that lesson all the hard way. You know, I kept going on some things for a for long, long, long time that brought me unhappiness. Us and make me a person I didn't want to be, so I try to be better about listening to what's good for me, you know, and what's going to help me put my best face into the world, I guess, as opposed to, you know, like that, stressed, overworked, unhappy person, because nobody wants to be that. Yeah, life is short.

Alex Husner  
Carrie, it's such a pleasure to get to know you today, and thank you for sharing not only your tech story, but also your story. And it's just, it's, it's fun talking to people like you, except it's very obvious you love what you do, and that clearly comes through to your guests too. So good job for to both you and your partner. You guys are doing an awesome, awesome experience, and thank

Kerri Gibson  
you, ladies for being part of our journey. I mean all of all you podcasters, from the beginning I have you have been in my ears, from the time that I was staining pieces of wood and to doing demo to now sitting at my desk doing whatever. But you guys, all of you guys that have put yourselves out there to help this industry be as amazing as we can be and continually grow and evolve, it's because of all of you that are constantly putting the work into it. So thank you very

Annie Holcombe  
kind of you. If anybody wants to get in touch with you and learn more about your business or book with hygge, saying it wrong if they want to, if they want to book with you, like, what's the best way to get in touch with you, other than going to your website?

Kerri Gibson  
Oh, I love LinkedIn. So we've been so busy, I spend more time stalking LinkedIn than I do. Actually find it like actually making posting about there, but I'm hoping that's going to change. But I love LinkedIn. And of course, you know my personal, my personal Instagram is where, like, I also like to follow a lot of people personally, and like, talk more business than just hospitality as well. So that Carrie underscore reinvented, and then, yeah, all of our handles for our businesses as well.

Alex Husner  
So oh, well, that's awesome. Well, we'll definitely check out those your personal channels too. Well. Thank you, Carrie, so much for coming on. And for anybody that wants to get in touch with Annie and I you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com and until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai