Scaling with Soul: How Zzzing Uses AI to Keep Hospitality Human with Sab Mulligan

Alex Husner  
Welcome to Alex & Annie: the real women of vacation rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we're joined today with sab Mulligan, who is the head of team for Zzzing. Sab, it's so great to have you on today.

Sab Mulligan  
So cool to be here with both of you. I love your podcast. I follow. I've learned so much because of you, too. So thank you.

Annie Holcombe  
That's very refreshing, because sometimes we question whether we know a lot. We appreciate, we appreciate that you learned something from us, but we were talking off camera, and you are coming to us from the beautiful island of Malta in the Mediterranean, and so I can't wait to learn more about it, and now we've added it to our bucket list for another girls trip. But before we get started, why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey into vacation rentals.

Sab Mulligan  
Okay, so this is quite new for me. I've been at zinc for the last three years. I spent a decade working in TV, then I jumped on board ice campus, which is a Tech Academy in the Mediterranean. I mean, one of the most industry celebrated. So I got to work with brands like Cisco, Microsoft, Adobe, Digital Marketing Institute. So that was really great, and it was also a really great space for me to grow professionally and personally in the world of tech. And then I joined the hospitality world. So I think what I loved most about my journey so far is one my beginner's mind. I remember the first time walking into a conference and what I felt. And two, I love traveling, so I am like a true guest. So my goal, why I joined hospitality, was because I thought, hey, cool. I get to delight guests. I get to help make memories for guests. So that's what attracted me to hospitality and, of course, vacation rentals with hours in collection, that's

Alex Husner  
great. So what are your high level thoughts of this industry since, since you've been in it? I mean, the hospitality, for sure. I think some people, they really they have that in their genes and the shows and the excitement that you exude, that you love that part of it. But how has it been? I mean, I'm sure there's a bit of, not only a learning curve, but also this is a crazy industry, and I'm sure you probably saw some things you had no idea were part of all the things related to short term

Sab Mulligan  
rentals. Well, I kind of, I remember for my first event, which was vacation rental Summit, and that was like, just two years ago, right? So I came in with a tech mindset, because that was my background, and so I was very shocked when back then, even though it's not a long time ago, yes, it was like the world of PMS, PMS, PMS, but still, there was such a well, my observation, at least, was such a culture of burnout and busyness and everyone is like, my badge of honor is, don't sleep. Work 20 hours answering calls at like, three in the morning. Need to deliver a key. And for me again, honestly, I was like, shocked that tech hadn't made a bigger impact back then. So that was like, point number one too. I was like, listen, people in the hospitality industry, they're here delighting guests, so I imagine them to be like king and queen of the party, right? You're a host. So I never expected everyone to be working so many hours, putting their lifestyle and their lives like second I remember I had met a very dear friend of mine, property manager. Well, she's a dear friend of mine now, and she told me, Oh, you have a child. This is in the industry for you. Because I don't even remember my daughter's seventh birthday, for example. So that is kind of was my first impression back then. Then fast forward to my next event, and that was the time where I had met, boom. And I said, Oh, cool. Look, these guys are like, real deal, real tech people, basically, who are in it to really be like a growth engine for a lot of partners and kind of that's where it got really interesting for us, because I started feeling that we can really scale. Yeah, because without Tech, I couldn't really, I couldn't really imagine us growing as fast as we wanted to.

Alex Husner  
And how many properties do you have now, I know you've seen incredible growth, yeah.

Sab Mulligan  
So we went to back then, like about 4050, properties. And now we're at 365 we'll be hitting 500 keys by the end of the year. Portfolio is diverse. So we have vacation rents, holiday homes. We have boutique houses, and now hotels as well. So we could only grow this fast because of tech, right? Because before, I think it was either you really want to be a really good host, this was the choice. You're either going to be a host or you're going to scale. Lots of people couldn't imagine being an exceptional host and still scaling. And we wanted

Annie Holcombe  
both. Wow. Now all of your properties, are they all located in Malta or Island?

Sab Mulligan  
Goes, Oh, yeah. So so far, yeah, yeah, we're all in Malta.

Speaker 1  
Yeah, and how big is the team? Oh, so everything

Sab Mulligan  
is in house. Everyone is in house. So we're about, I would say 70 people now. So a team of 70 people across all divisions. So revenue, management, operations, of course, guest experience, because Tech has not replaced AI hasn't replaced guest experience. We still have quite a strong team there, and basically all functions across the vacation rental arena, basically, so we have a bit of representation of every function there. Wow.

Alex Husner  
And where have all these properties come from? We talk a lot on the show about owner acquisition, and I think it is different, for sure, and in some ways how that comes about in the US. But where are you getting most of those properties from?

Sab Mulligan  
What is a small island? So word of mouth can work well, either beautifully or horribly.

Annie Holcombe  
Yeah, imagine

Sab Mulligan  
so definitely word of mouth. We've also seen great growth in the last 12 months, because a lot of our property partners continue to invest in other properties as well because they liked our model. So that is also one of our, I think, highlights what we're proud of the most. So that, and, of course, with hotels and boutique guest houses and multi units, especially multi units, I have like, a love for multi units, because, you know, you have control over a whole block, and the whole mood and energy of the place is vacation rentals, so you are not disrupting residents. And it's like, you know, one intention for the property. And so I love that. I think it's a big advantage.

Annie Holcombe  
So, yeah, it's interesting. You said that you had some some small hotels, and I've been talking to a lot of property managers that are buying in the US. They're buying basically old, rundown motels like these little, you know, the one story has 1520, units out of the road, side of the road, things that you know, we would out when, I know, when I was growing up, it was always like a stopover if you had a really long drive that you had to stay stay in. But that, you know, so vacation rentals are getting into hotels, and obviously we're seeing the hotel companies that are getting into vacation rentals. So was that something that you purposely sought out, or was it something that sort of happened organically within your business to get the hotels?

Sab Mulligan  
Happens organic, organically. However, we really have a love for the Word boutique, right? So we call our guest houses boutique guest houses. And when we say boutique, it's because it's not just because it's small, but because of the personalization, because of the influence and the promotion of what to do in the area, and the locals and the live like a local, and that you can really fully immerse in Malta's culture if you stay in a boutique property. So I think that is one of the highlights of part of our growth as well. We're kind of redefining boutique to mean not just size related, not just small, but also very big in personality.

Alex Husner  
I love that. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it isn't necessarily just dialed into the size, but it's more about the style and the experience. It's really cool. And for those properties, do you have control over, you know, the furnishings, the interiors, or are they still all individually decorated by the owner?

Sab Mulligan  
100% now, so we also have an onboarding team. We have a stylist as well. So now we're well. For the last year and a half, we started to introduce our style, basically, and our what we like to call gold standards in our property, where you get a completely different experience, but the same standards, no matter where you stay, you know what to expect. Because I think that's really important, of course, in the building of our brand as well. Because ultimately, that's what we're doing, right? It's growing the zing name as well. In this space.

Annie Holcombe  
I loved, I love the name. I actually, I looked at it and I was like, is it zing, or is it ZZ, zing? So I'm glad you said it, because I wasn't sure exactly how to say it. Can you tell me a little bit about the brand, like, what is the ethos of it? What is, you know, if somebody looks at the zing brand, what, what does it mean to you and like to your your your guests. So

Sab Mulligan  
firstly, delighting guests, and I think there's so much conversation about guest experience, and we're guest centric and all this, but ultimately, it's about how you make people feel right, and also about knowing what a guest's intentions are and why they are traveling. So I always like to tell our new team members joining when I get to do my brand talk about zing and why we exist and what our core values are. It's like, imagine five of our previous guests, and there were the couple on a baby moon. Then there is the couple guys telling us he's going to propose while they're in Malta, and then a 40 year old cancer free, and he is celebrating that because he's coming to Malta. And then maybe you'll have, yeah, solo adults traveling with three kids for the first time, and the father and the son visiting Malta yet again, because it was their mother's his mother's favorite place. Eyes, and she passed away, and they're coming here to celebrate her. So you'll see the shock in the eyes or the pause in the eyes of a lot of people joining the team. Wow. These are real people, real stories. There's our responsibility to really make this not just decent for them, but help make them, make it special for them. And I think as soon as we start to realize the impact that we can have when we understand the power of the good feelings, right, the delight, the excitement, the anticipation, the disappointment because they don't want to leave, that gives a lot of people the their feeling that, hey, we're scaling. But these are not clients. They're our guests, a host mentality. Basically, this is a numbers game when it comes to the amount of properties, for sure, yeah, we're growing. Amount of keys are growing really fast, but it's still about how we are making an impact on each and every person visiting our islands and choosing our brand because, because it's it's early days for us. A lot of times it's like they get to know about the brand after they stay with us, not before. So of course, there's a bit of that fear of, what are they going to walk into? Yeah.

Alex Husner  
Yeah. It's so funny. Whenever I talk to you, I think about the book by Horst Schulz, who he was the CEO of, former CEO of the Ritz Carlton, and the book's called excellent wins. Excellence wins. I'm not sure if you've read it before, but whenever I talk to you, it reminds me of that book, and just the way that you talk about guest experience, and like, with like, such true excitement of understanding you know that they are your guests. And that was his phrase to the entire company. Was it was ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen. And it was all about the experience. I think you guys have done such a great job in doing that, and not only in doing that, but also in being able to maintain that level of consistency that you spoke about, because that's hard for a lot of companies, in particular when you've got different types of accommodations that you know, the experience is going to be slightly different checking into the hotel versus one of the traditional vacation rentals. But like, what are some of the things that you do to streamline that, like, how does somebody feel? Very much the same experience when they check in, no matter what property they're at with

Sab Mulligan  
zing and to be very honest and very clear, we are not perfect, and scaling has not even scaling has been very hard. And when a guest is disappointed either because we are at fault or because it just didn't meet their standards in for any particular reason. That hurts, right? So we, I'm not, by no means, saying that the brand is perfect. We're growing, but what I can say is that we can have this type of mentality because of tech and because the power of blend, basically the beautiful dance between humans, the talented team, and, of course, the technology. And I think especially in the last six, seven months, when we embarked on our journey, flirting our head off with AI, I think that just continued to give us confidence that, hey, we can start to get to know guests better and start to understand what their expectations are, and we can make recommendations which are very much aligned to why they are coming to Malta. And it sort of became a bit more playful for us again. So it kind of opened a new door for us as traditional property managers trying to position themselves as a hospitality brand. So when it comes to what we do with guests, yes, first of all, either, I would say, from our automated messages to our conversations with guests before and during their stay, we try as much as possible to one not invade their space, but when they do speak to us, we give them the feedback that they want instantly when they want it to be instantly, right? So how does this work? They don't need to speak to a person, because they just want the answer there. But when they're asking for how to curate my three days in Malta, or I'm here on a business trip and I just have like, four hours of free time, what should I do now our guest experience team, the humans, have time to actually deliver this type of content, these type of recommendations, to guests. And I think that is really powerful, because the reality is, it's a really busy world, and sometimes people expect either not to get an answer, or they expect it to be cold or exactly the opposite. They want to engage because they're excited, because you're from the island and they're not. So they want as much information from you as possible. So it's a bit of a balance. I think that is the best part of this business, finding the. Rhythm with the guests to see what they want and how you can really make their time better than they ever dreamt it would be.

Annie Holcombe  
Yeah, it's kind of like, like a choreographing a dance. You know, sometimes it's a disco and sometimes it's a slow dance, but you got to find the right, right rhythm along the way. I was actually going to ask you, and you kind of, like, got into it, but you you're on boom, and that's one of the things that's, you know, really cool about boom is they have this AI that's kind of embedded in it. You can train it to be, you know, the benefit of your company, in your voice and kind of your, you know, your style of talk, and the information that you can put into it. You're training it along the way. So maybe, you know, there's been a lot of conversation in the industry about AI and about how, you know, is it taking away too much of the human component? Is it? Is it getting too dependent on the technology piece of it and not having the human part of it? But it sounds like you've done a really good job training yours and setting yours up. So why don't you give us, like, some insight on how you've done that? So I would imagine you know one you need to make sure your team feels at ease to use it, but also that the guests feel at ease that they're not talking to an actual person, or maybe they don't even know it at this point. But why don't you talk us through that? Okay,

Sab Mulligan  
so cards on the table. I remember when I sent the first message to the boom guys that we wanted to jump in our AI journey. It was because I was very scared of how, one, how fast we are scaling, and two, because summer was about to hit Malta, and this was just last March. Okay, basically, so just a few months ago, and I was like, What are we going to do, employ a ton of people, and this is going to turn into a call center, or just not answer a lot of guests, or just send loads of information before, sort of, what's our game plan? So I remember I had messaged them. I told them, Listen, let's jump in. But then they hit me back with, sure, sub, like, just upload your policies and like, off we go. We'll start training the AI. I'm like, oh, policies. So again, one of our big learnings this year, especially was policies and practices and protocols, write them down. We never had taken the time to do that, and because of AI, this was a great opportunity to lock ourselves up for a couple of days and really write down what our policies are. And not just about check in time and check out time, but of course, of policies related to specific properties, related to frequently asked questions about properties, and put that all down in a kind of brand Bible, basically. And we did that for the AI. And at one point, the AI knew more information than our guest experience team, because we had become very comfortable in a setting where different guest experience executives all ask the same questions over and over again, basically,

Alex Husner  
and the guest gets different answers depending on who they talk to. It's pretty common, I would say,

Sab Mulligan  
yeah. But so thanks to AI, we really kind of framed our journey and created the policies. Then it was well for me, the fun part, because we get we got to experiment with empathy, friendliness, creating policies related to local insights and recommendations and teaming up with certain stakeholders and authorities to obviously promote properties in the area, All triggered by AI. So what can a guest possibly ask? Let's come up with all these answers and speak in our brand tone, right? We're Island people, so when people are coming to Malta, they're expecting a bit of like an island vibe, not something too city or too cosmopolitan, even though it's a large island. So this was part of how we started to test and mold and create our AI. You asked me about our team. There was resistance from our team because, of course, so much talk about AI. It's like everyone kind of forgets that we are in control and not it is in control. And so I had asked, boom, if I can give Zoe, if I can humanize their AI, so if I can call her Zoe, and so Zoe, we're training Zoe. Zoe makes mistakes, and we actually highlight her mistakes to the team. So Zoe is just like a kid, and we are monitoring and following and celebrating when she scores like a great answer, and tweaking when she doesn't. And very quickly, the team started to understand that Zoe is taking over the shifts which they don't want. She's working on public holidays, national holidays. Should be working on Christmas Day. No one wants to work on Christmas Day, right? So, so she brings a certain consistency in how we reply, and this gave a lot of freedom and flexibility to our guest experience team to work on more content, to engage with bigger groups who want to book our properties, to really focus more on the. HOST part of it. Should we have a welcome basket? Should it be a personalized basket? Should it be custom? Should we integrate the shop basically, which we have now into our guest port and into the mix? What should we be selling? How can we upsell? What should we upsell? So it wasn't about anymore? Of course, they started to understand better that it's not about AI taking over. They're not going to have any job anymore, and it's about one giving them the space to do the fun part of hospitality, and then personally, being able, for me, what I love most is being able to attract creatives and individuals who are really hungry to host, rather than people who just want to sit and answer the same type of questions over and over again. Zoe takes care of the boring, the mediocre, the constant, the humans take care of everything else. And I think that is the beautiful balance between humans and AI, so I don't see it as a threat at all. I still think that our guest experience is very personal. 100% it is personal. We just use the power of tech to take care of the areas which are run of the mill. Always the same. Yeah, it's as simple as that.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, and you had a great line in one of the conversations that we've shared about how when, when good tech is working properly, you shouldn't even know it's there, you know, I mean, like, you shouldn't have to be worried about the tech because it's doing its job and it's it's supplemental to what you're working on. But I mean, the tech is never the forefront of any of our businesses. I mean, it's there to power them, but the people are still the forefront. And that's what I've heard from most of boom partners that have signed on, is that, you know, this isn't replacing people, it's allowing them to work on more, higher level type of things. So that's that's really good to hear. And I did want to mention, too on your note about you didn't have policies written down. I think that is so common across the industry. And I think, you know, most companies have maybe, like, five to 10 FAQs that are, you know, the generic ones, check in, check out, stuff like that. But there's so there's always been, you know, a hesitation of, we don't want to have things, some things in writing, because, you know, I mean, there's always different situations when it's never exactly black and white, but what ends up happening is, you know, you've got a team of reservationists, and you know, even for some of the things that are more black and white, but they are answering them in the same kind of question in different ways. And it's like that, really, that does erode the guest experience, because it's like, if you've stayed with the company for three years, on the fourth year, you asked for the same thing and there, and that person you know, doesn't answer the way that they're supposed to there. It's like, now you're thinking something changed with the company, but it was just that that employee doesn't know the right way to answer it. And the cool thing with the AI is you're you still you have it on autopilot, or you did at one point, right? So you were able to see what Zoe was saying, and if she said something that you needed to correct. You correct it, and then she always remembers at that point. She doesn't ever get it wrong again. I mean, there's no gray area at that point. So, I mean, all of us are forgetful. I know I certainly am, but with the AI, I mean, it's like, once it's stored, you've got it there, which is huge,

Sab Mulligan  
sure. And then we jumped into AI for sales, which is brilliant, AI for reviews, something which is we're building at the moment and now AI for our owners dashboards. And that's like next level game changer now, because owners also want or deserve whatever you think answers instantly as well, and they're always all asking the same questions.

Annie Holcombe  
Yeah. Or

Sab Mulligan  
performance, it's always the same questions or bookings and and the fact that AI can handle all that well, I just see it to be very positive and beautiful. At this point,

Annie Holcombe  
I agree. I love that. I love that attitude, though, too, you just You're so positive about it, so it was probably hard for your team to do anything but be positive in return. And I know that I see it as in, you know, relative to the channels for a large property manager, it's really hard to get back to the reviews and go through those processes like quickly and timely, like a host can a host can respond much quicker because they only have a few properties. When you're talking 300 plus properties, that's a lot of reviews and a lot of things that you need to go through. So being able to have that tool, I think it now levels that playing field against a individual host where the channels are concerned, because I see all this, you know, for the years, it was always Airbnb would show, well, a host that has less than 10 units has a higher review score or higher guest score, and it's because they can get the reviews and they can respond to them, and a larger one just doesn't have the bandwidth to be able to do it. But now with AI, you can do it, and so you're going to be, if not, better than, you know, that individual host, which is going to, you know, again, I think it just levels the playing. The field where the review scores are concerned. And I really, really like that, because I feel property managers who scale, they are concerned, they have been concerned about that piece, and feeling a little unfairly judged by the channels because they just can't get to it in a timely manner.

Alex Husner  
You know what's so funny, too, we were on the Thanks for visiting podcast with Sarah and Annette. I think this was, like, probably about three years ago, this time of year. And, I mean, that feels like forever ago, because at that point, nobody had any idea what was coming, as far as AI responding reviews. And we talked about that exact, exact topic, because at the time, the company I worked with, I mean, we had almost 500 properties, and we were talking about reviews, and they've got a small portfolio. And I said that exact same thing, that it's like, you know, we're doing our best, but, you know, we would have to have teams of people responding to, you know, on this in summertime, we've got 500 checkouts every Saturday. So if you get 70% of those to write a review, that's, that's a lot of reviews to not only respond to, but to sift through and figure out, like, where are, where do we need to, you know, improve the property what's going on that we don't know about? But yeah, I totally agree with Annie that. I mean, like, this is now it's leveling the playing field for those enterprise ones to be able to compete, you know, with the small host. I'm sure the smallest probably don't like that, but it is a reality now.

Sab Mulligan  
I think great tech should be seen like it's a growth engine. That's what it felt like for us. Because at one point, even though you guys and thank you are saying I'm all positive and doing that, but at one point, it felt like I need to choose between what I love the most. I'm either going to be a really good host or I really want to go on a scaling journey. And so I think with strong tech partners, you can actually have the best of both worlds. Basically, I think that is what a lot of property managers, especially the ones who are very hungry to grow you need to understand that there is this moment of surrender that they have to experience when they say, Hey, Tech is a friend.

Annie Holcombe  
Absolutely, absolutely absolutely so with when you, when you selected boom was aI the chief reason that you selected their platform, or what was it that you went, you know, what was the choice, the selection choice like for you?

Sab Mulligan  
Okay, so Well, first story, first time I met boom ed on actually, we were roundtable at vacation rental Summit. And I think there, our selection was based on energy and attitude.

Annie Holcombe  
They've got all of that. Yeah, they

Sab Mulligan  
really had that. Oh yes. And again, the fact that they were the ones there, like Dev, the dev team was there as well. So rather than just sales executives or sales people at a stand, but you're actually speaking to the people who are building I think that gives you a lot of confidence, and obviously, because of their their background in property management as well. So that was yes, for sure, conversation started, kind of started. There was a spark there, when there was the same kind of energy. But then when they had showed us how they are building this AI that again, what for us we launched today, the sending of videos, the how tos, how to get to the property, how to use the hot tub, whatever, anything that you can think of, how to catch a bus and monitor but everything is now visual content, 32nd video clip. Ooh, there. I think that is where our attraction really, really grew. Then we started talking about other things, like the owners dashboard and so really and truly, I mean the fact that it is a an AI powered PMS, which brings together all aspects of what a property manager needs, from A to Z, whether it's communication with guests between teams, which is something that we use. I mean, it's like in our day to day, with the scheduling of operational tasks, the opening of tickets, so for guests, for teams, and now also with owners. It kind of made us feel that, like Alex mentioned, we don't need to talk about we don't need to talk or think about tech. The tech is there, and we can focus on what we think we're good at doing, creating relationships, delivering great guest experience, and growing our portfolio. And the tech figures it all out for us, and that is liberating and very freeing, because there's a certain heaviness when you are constantly scared of the how and the what and and when we stopped worrying about that, then it was all about growth.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, yeah. I love that. Tell us a little bit about BAM after

Sab Mulligan  
that. Yeah, oh, bam, bam, bam, bam. Okay, so I've been playing around with BAM now for a couple of months, I would say now at this point, and I absolutely love it. So. It brings together everything related to our company, whether it's our processes, our reservations, everything that one would see on different OTA channels. You just with one prompt, can get the information that you need, and now even better, you can even ask it to I'm saying it because I don't know Bam is male or female, not like Zoe. I know Zoe is a lady.

Alex Husner  
We're in mascot design phase right now.

Sab Mulligan  
It can also complete actions. For example, today I was with a property partner who very unexpectedly asked me Listen, how many repeat guests do we have in my property, right? So it was like one prompt, and I pulled

Alex Husner  
up on the spot. Yeah, my gosh, exactly so.

Sab Mulligan  
So not just like the boring questions of okay, revenue and nightly rates, boring, but very obviously important as well, but also information related to guests, like where they are from, how long are they staying for? What did they ask us for? What were their reviews about? So one quick question, and again, our property partners are always in awe. It's like, oh, wow, all the information is there. And so that's one. But then we're also using, for example, from like a listing perspective, where we can ask, bam, listen, which properties require either better photography or more photos. And whereas before our listing manager, this is unbelievable, would literally have to go through listing by listing on the PMs right one command, and there goes your report. And now what I'm excited about is asking BAM to put up our Christmas photography across all our listings, and bam will do it. And last year that took us, like, I think, a good six days. Yeah, no joke.

Annie Holcombe  
Wow. I love that. That's a cool that's a cool use for technology right there.

Alex Husner  
And just to clarify for anybody listening, so bam, is within boom. It's one of our most latest announcements that the official announcement is is coming soon, but we're going to be showing it at vrma next week and doing demos of it. But I was just on a call with one of my property management clients the other day, and they said they had seen a huge, a huge surge for 2026 like, more so than that, way more than what they were seeing this time last year. And we were talking about what's going on right now with government shutdown, and asking, you know, could have anything to do with that. I mean, like, are people from those areas? Are they just, like, had enough, and they're just writing a book? They're vacationing? Vacation. And I said, Well, can you see, I mean, like, where are these bookings coming from? And they said, Yeah, well, I mean, we can go look into it, but, you know, it's like, it's those conversations happen on a daily basis, that it's like, the information, you can find it in most systems, but it just takes forever. I mean, it's you've got to go and find this report and that report, in that report, and normally the data is not exactly what you're looking for. So I think, you know, the power of the future is being able to have that information at the tip of your fingers, when you're talking to owners, when you're talking to guests, when you're talking to your internal team. I mean, it's, I wish I could have that about my you know, I guess it's chat GPT. But, like, about anything in my own business. You know, it's like, there's so many things across platforms that we have to use in any type of industry right now, but that's, that's going to be the fun one to watch. And you've, you've shown me quite a bit of what you've done with the playbooks and things too. So really, really cool stuff.

Sab Mulligan  
100% like today. Another way we use this is a particular guest who always books our property. So I think this is her seventh time booking, and she always asks us for the same thing. So you could tell me, yes, of course, you can keep a spreadsheet. You can keep you could have any sort of place where you are storing this information, but the fact that you can just put in her name, and it gives you the history in 30 seconds of this guest, what she asks for, what she wants, what reviews she's given us, and why, you know, and you can really drill down into focusing, okay, how are we going to make this special for her? How are we going to remember that she loves green tea because she's mentioned and it's there i and what I really excited about is, in a few months time, we're gonna look back and say, oh my goodness, this looked like this felt like just a couple of months ago. It felt like it was like 3040, years back, you know? So it's like we're living through such an important era for this industry. Yeah, that's, for me,

Annie Holcombe  
good stuff. And I think that when the boom bust becomes a reality, Sahara ever does that, we get the boom bust and we bring you to the US and take you on tour. Yeah, I think you would be, you would be a great you've been great advocate for AI and obviously for boom. But I was curious like, do you have. Plans. You said that you have the properties on Malta and then your sister Island. Are there plans to grow outside of the island and on mainland Europe?

Sab Mulligan  
So last week, our new GM Malta started. So this was a very big, bold move for us. For us, Ludwig joined the team just last week. He wasn't planned for this year. We were thinking of roping someone in at this leadership role for next year, but he came along. Conversations were great. It kind of there was a really nice sink and energy. And just like what happened with boom, it happened again to us. And so this gives me a lot of space and freedom to really focus on what I love most, which is great, definitely, growth, internationalization, brand building, and, of course, my continuous flirting with AI and how that can help us optimize our processes as well. So definitely, long story short, for sure, we would like to see little portfolios sprouting in different Mediterranean countries, especially where we know the culture, where we know the people, and where we know what the standards are, because that will obviously give us a bit more confidence in the type of guest experience that we are promising.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, no, that's great. And where do most your guests come from? Oh,

Sab Mulligan  
so Scandinavian countries have become real popular. Obviously, other Mediterranean countries, Italy, Spain, lots of British people still come here. So especially over 40s, especially a lot of British still come to the Maltese islands. They're regular, so they're regular visitor visitors again Asia, the Asian market has been growing now with our delta partnership. Yeah,

Annie Holcombe  
very excited about that.

Sab Mulligan  
We're gonna see more Americans flying to Malta as well. So that should be great fun, especially if they're travelers, and not just bookers. I say they really want to make holiday memories on an island rather than just come for a few days. For sure,

Alex Husner  
about the in the on the US, in the US, there's, you know, the Chamber of Commerce's the DMOS, the, you know, tourism bureaus, that's that's a big part of a lot of these destinations. Do you have that over in Malta, like, is there an organization that, you know, fosters tourism, that you work with? Same

Sab Mulligan  
for sure, we're an island, right? So tourism is a pillar of our economy. It always has, it always will be. So there are a number of stakeholders, including the Malta Tourism Authority as well. So whether it comes to legislations for vacation rentals, boutiques, houses and hotels, they cover it all as well. But we are obviously all very fiercely passionate about promoting the Maltese culture as well, and really letting people experience island life, and not just, you know, what is distinct to Malta. So not necessarily the big, long, never ending sandy beaches, but the rocky coves, the secret spaces, the secrets, I think, that only locals can tell you about, right? What you don't find on Google, I like to say, Yeah,

Alex Husner  
we want to come over.

Annie Holcombe  
Yeah, no, I'm there. And if you need help to go, like, acquire properties, let us know. I think Alex and I'd be really great to go tour, tour the Mediterranean and find some properties for you. We'd love to do that. I did want to ask you just totally more about, like the market itself. Regulatory problems are popping up, kind of like a whack a mole for everybody everywhere. Obviously, don't know a lot about Malta, but is that something that you guys are dealing with, or have dealt with, or anticipate dealing with?

Sab Mulligan  
Yeah, there were quite a lots of conversations last year basically about this, especially when it comes to apartment blocks, multi units. And to be very honest, I really understand residents, right? Because when people are in holiday mode and you just want to go home in a quiet space, and the holiday maker might sit in the terrace, smoke, put on music because they're on holiday, right? It can get very irritating for certain residents, and this is why I'm a fan of either full properties or multi units. So Yes, last year there were a number of conversations, however, especially thanks to our association of property managers here, we also managed well. We had the opportunity to talk about tech that can really help, whether it is noise monitoring, for example, whether it is security. I had a really great conversation just a few days ago, thanks to Alex with Ella from auto host

Alex Husner  
as well. Yeah. We love Ella,

Sab Mulligan  
yes, training. So there is so much as well that maybe here in Malta we haven't been exposed to yet, but it's already out there, and can give residents a lot of peace of mind as well. So I think it's all, ultimately, it's all about respect, and respecting neighbors is definitely, definitely has to feature. So yeah, lots of talk about regulations. Nothing really has been finalized and no big scares yet. Of course, our portfolio is diverse, so if anything had to happen, obviously the impact for us would be less than other property managers who only focus on vacation rentals?

Alex Husner  
Yeah, yes. We were just in New Orleans probably about a month ago for an SDR meetup, and that's also a unique area, as far as regulations, that they've got a lot of them and a lot of issues down there, but a lot of the managers they have, like boutique hotels that were vacation rentals. And, I mean, they're working on different rezoning, you know, ways to still be able to stay in business right now. But I mean, the diversification in your market is smart. I mean, should anything like that happen? And you know, the hard part is, even if there's not anything going on right now, you know, that doesn't mean in the in the future, that there won't be something, that there's a new person on your, you know, Council, however, that's made up that, you know, it can people get together and they start coming up with crazy ideas, and then, you know, next thing you know, life has changed forever for your business. And we just saw that recently in Hilton Head, South Carolina, which that's, you know, very much, a long, long standing tourism destination. The market completely relies on tourism. And there's some city council folks that were trying to pass these different ordinances that would basically shut down vacation rentals. And the company that I work with was able to put together a group, and they basically, they shut them down, and at least got them at bay for now. But it's it just goes to show you know, a lot of these decisions are being made behind closed doors and conversations, and you just, you have to keep those open lines of communication with those stakeholders, and then, at least you're aware, and then can get your other, you know, competitors or companies in the area together to kind of form a coalition there, which I'm

Sab Mulligan  
not sure of, and maybe it's because I'm new to the scene, right? Or a bit naive, I don't know, is maybe, if listings are very clear, right? And and you're really explaining where the property is and what the expectations are and the type of traveler, you're really narrowing it down, and you're really stating what your niche traveler type is, if that could help in any way. Because sometimes I see a lot of listings that just like, look like whatever, whoever you are, whatever you're coming to the island, for anybody

Annie Holcombe  
trying to be all things to everybody. And you can't be everyone. When you

Alex Husner  
say a hotel, I mean, the hoops you have to go in to get into a vacation rental or stay a vacation in a lot of cases, are significantly deeper than at a hotel that. I mean, you've got to, depending on the country and where you're at, you've got to provide a lot of information, background checks, and you don't have to do that at a hotel. And, you know, bad apples in a hotel is also not a good thing. So, you know, vacation rentals, for the most part, the good players and markets have adopted that type of technology. But I think you're right. I think a lot of what's happening, there's still a lot of stakeholders across the country that don't realize all the tech and the things that have come about in order to protect not only the destination but the residents. I mean, they're trying to maintain the quality of life for residents, so it's not overrun with tourism. And, you know, being good neighbors, and there's, there's plenty of tech out there right now that speaks to that. And unfortunately, it's the bad apples that we've talked about for years, and they're, you know, they'll never completely go away, but we've just got to sing the the good apple song.

Annie Holcombe  
Well, sab, it was wonderful to get to talk to you, and I cannot wait. Like, I definitely Malta is on my list. I mean, I like, what's on the list? We're going to figure a way to come see you. But in the meantime, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to reach out to you?

Sab Mulligan  
LinkedIn, 100% so LinkedIn would be the best way. I'm really interested in meeting like, like minded property managers, or individuals who are also diving deep into AI. I think in general, if I had to take a step back vacation rentals and str, we're really doing a really good job with embracing tech, especially when you see how this journey has played out in hotels. And so I really think that that deserves a bit of a moment to celebrate as well, because there's a lot happening. And sometimes you just kind of need to cut through the noise and say, Listen, we're really moving forward fast as well. So, and it's, again, very much of a big subject. Everyone's talking about it, and when you get right. To it. It's just about how AI can make you get your life back.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, exactly, exactly. We've got some good T shirts coming along the along those lines. Well, thank you so much sav pleasure to see you as always. If anyone wants to reach out to Annie and I you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com and until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai