Preserving People, Culture, and Legacy: Inside Nocturne’s Acquisition Strategy with CEO, Scott Wiseman

Alex Husner  
Welcome to Alex & Annie: The Real Women of Vacation Rentals. I'm Alex, and I'm Annie, and we are joined today by Scott Wiseman, who is the CEO of Nocturne villas, and a second time repeat guest on the show. So good to see you, Scott.

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, it's great to be back. I miss I miss both of you.

Annie Holcombe  
No, we love talking with you. You're always, you're always, just like a breath of fresh air to talk to. And we were talking off camera. So there's a definite difference in kind of the climates that we're sitting in right now. You've got that you're channeling your inner fall guy. And I'm still in the summer down in Florida, and Alex is right in between in Myrtle Beach. So we're rolling into fall here.

Scott Wiseman  
Sounds about right? And it could change at any time for any one of us.

Alex Husner  
It could Exactly. Yeah,

Annie Holcombe  
absolutely. Well, why don't you bring us up to speed on the world of Scott and what's been going on for you?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, I'd love to, thankfully, it's been really busy. Which is, which is great. We've seen the, you know, the slowdown, I think, in bookings that happened at the beginning of the year, with a little bit of uncertainty. And all of that was happening in the world has really started to heat up. And so particularly the last couple of months, booking pace has really taken off and getting back well into strong double digit year over year bookings for the back half of the year, which we're really excited about. And kudos to our team that worked really hard to, you know, pull all the right levers, if you will, to kind of get us moving in that direction. And also, on the you know, acquisition front, we've had a lot of activity in the last couple of months, which we're excited about. Met some amazing founders of great businesses over the last year for sure, and continued pretty heavily through this past summer as well. So there's a lot of activity out there too, for people looking for that, that perfect next step for their for their businesses?

Alex Husner  
Yeah, definitely, a lot of people evaluating options right now. And you know, I mean, that's really been going on for several years, really, but I think there's just a lot of different ways that people can exit their companies now, and it's becoming more of a reality for people that might have been thinking about it a few years ago, and they're now they're now seeing okay, this, this could make sense, but just to get our audience up to speed a little bit, in case they don't know you, or if they didn't listen to our last episode about a year ago, remind us how many markets Nocturne is in and how many properties that represents.

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, we've since 2021 we've acquired seven different great local brands in six markets, and today we're just about 1200 total

Alex Husner  
homes. Okay, yeah, and most of the portfolio is on the like luxury end. Is that correct?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, we do stay focused on the luxury side of the inventory, for sure, probably I can say that we're somewhere between 25 and 50% of the luxury market in each of the markets where we're operating. So we've got a strong presence in those in that space, in each of the local areas.

Annie Holcombe  
That's impressive. I wanted to ask you, kind of you were, you know, talking about like people are assessing, and Alex alluded is assessing, like what they want to do with their business. And there seems to be a number of players in the market that are doing it in different ways to kind of help people either completely get out of it, or cash out some equity, or kind of buy into these various conglomerates of business. But there was one that came up as recently that I think, was the VR stakeholders, and I don't, I still don't understand a lot about it. We did have them on the show, and it's a very interesting concept. But can you share a little bit of you know, what you know about the kind of that area and what maybe not turn offers differently for somebody that maybe does have a luxury portfolio and is thinking, Okay, what's my next step?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, absolutely. I think, well, first, I think it's good that, you know, high tide rises all boats. So we're always very positive people's success and experiences in the in the space, but they are very different. I mean, everyone kind of has a little bit different strategy. I know there's is to kind of bring a big chunk of groups together and then kind of go to market all at once to bring some synergies. What we do is a little bit different in that we're kind of staying really focused and committed towards the experience of going with companies that are looking for kind of that personalized exit strategy that really means a lot for them. It's we don't want to bunch anyone in to a larger group. We want them to feel that, you know what, their whether it's their heritage being preserved, taking care of their employees, a transition. Many of them are so concerned, right, that they want to stick around for a year maybe or two, and help with the transition so that the homeowners are comfortable. But for us, it's about a personalized exit strategy. So that means each person that we're, you know, we're working with to acquire we can cater to their needs, as opposed to kind of putting everybody into one bucket. Is really the big difference with us, and I think that's. Been a great experience the last couple of months, specifically, of people feeling relieved and knowing that that's even a possibility, and wait that can happen. And I can, you know, share, you know, the windfall with the team, but I can also do what I love to do, but not work 80 hours a week and still help the business be successful, or get involved in a little bit of earn out so they continue to get paid for the work that they put in. So that's really been the secret to us, is that we've done it seven times. They've not all looked the same each seven times, but the success has always come out at the end, and everyone's felt really happy with with where they've ended up.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, no, that's great. And we all know some of the unsuccessful stories right of the industry over the past decade or so. And I think it's just it's more Top of Mind with companies as they're assessing this because, you know, the people are the business in this industry for sure. And a lot of these people have been employees with these companies for some of them decades. You know, it's a lifelong commitment that they've they've made to them, and they want to make sure that they're taken care of, whether that's staying in or, you know, being part of the exit. You know, some thoughtfully would fall thoughtfully done way. But I'm curious, when you're looking at potential deals now, what's the main thing that you're looking at? I mean, I know you guys, you have mostly luxury properties, but is it the company size? Is it the brand? Is it just, you know, a good feeling from the owners that they be a good culture fit of what they've built like. How does that process work? Yes,

Scott Wiseman  
it is. It is really all of the above. I think first and foremost, it's, you know, the quality of the homes, the reputation of the local brand, the ability to continue to grow within those those markets, the quality of the team that they have in place, and what they've been able to do over the years that all kind of plays into it. It's not, it's not a super complicated equation. You know, we don't want to break anything we are looking for. You know, companies that have the bulk of the luxury share in that particular market. But we also don't want to do anything that's going to upset the apple car. We, I like to put it this way, we kind of take care of that nasty bits that they, you know, have looked for, not to be able to do going forward, like anything finance related or with it, helping with HR, driving more leads without worrying about, Do I need to know about SEO and PPC and anything that we can do to take away so that they've got more time with the homeowners and the employees and the guests, is really what we're what we're out to do. And so a lot of times we can really help that we've, you know, shown sustained growth with the local brands that we've bought, and there's always a seamless transition during that same process and being able to kind of add the global scale that we have. So I've always learned something, even if it's something that's not in our wheelhouse, like maybe it isn't enough luxury product to be able to, you know, sustain or what's there. But I'm so appreciative anytime I get an opportunity to speak to someone, because I learn from them too. I mean, they've been so successful. And then often we'll refer them to someone else who might be interested as well, for the type of business that they have too. So it's always a good interaction, whether we move forward with them or not.

Annie Holcombe  
I wanted to ask you, from your day to day, when you're assessing a business, how hands on are you? I know you've got a really strong team. We've met a fair amount of them, and all completely strong in all of their disciplines. And obviously you kind of the buck stops with you, so to speak. But how hands on do you get with these acquisitions and these conversations?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, very hands on. I think it's important, not just from my side. I think they need to know, you know me as well, like, I don't want to be like, you know, nameless, faceless CEO that they're not quite sure. I think that the more they get to me, me and the team, the better, the better it is. And even when they are open to kind of sharing with their small group of leaders, if they have them, the sooner they let them know they're interested, and we get to meet them as well. That's a huge win, because it is still a cultural fit that does matter. I mean, it's it doesn't always have to be about money. It helps, but I think that a lot of them are looking for a connection to someone see what I've built, does someone respect it? And also, I find it's helpful because they've probably never sold a business before, and it is scary if you don't have an advisor or an investment bank, or even just the fact that you just don't want to be taken advantage of, right? That's what I hear a lot. Is someone said to me recently, actually, very recently, it was a great, a great question of, how do I know that you see something in my business that you're not telling me so that you can take advantage of that benefit, and I'm not going to get it my sale price? Yeah. And I was like, well, quite honestly, we wouldn't keep doing what we're doing if anyone had a transaction with us and felt that they. Didn't get what they wanted. We want raving fans, from people that have sold their business to us and got everything out of it that they wanted, from the, you know, their employees all the way through their financial satisfaction. And ironically enough, two weeks later, we went back and found something that was worth maybe a half a million in the business, and put it in front of in front of her, and said, We're going to pay you on this because you missed it, but we found it, and we just just to prove what you said earlier, we're not out to we're not making money by cheating or paying you less for the business. We want to grow the business and keep the success going. And so it's just a great opportunity to, coincidentally, the one person who asked it like that, we actually had something that we were able to come back and say, we're going to give

Alex Husner  
you credit on this? Yeah, definitely. I'm sure it's a lot of education from your side to these people too, if they haven't, you know, gone to conferences and sat in on Jacoby and Jason sprinkles presentations on this. I mean, there's just, and even if you have, there's still so much to learn when it's actually you behind the wheel going through it. But I'm curious. I mean, what is the main goal with Nocturne, or the opportunity that you see when you come into a company? Is it? And you're probably gonna say both. But is it consolidation of resources so that they can operate more cost effectively? Is it growth or, like, where's the opportunity that you guys see that you're going to be able to make this a good investment, because, I mean, the companies are trading on pretty high multiples right now, so you've got to have some level of knowing where you're trying to move the levers.

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, I would say I put last on the list actually the savings or some type of cost structure changes, because you know, the businesses are usually not huge, and there's very little redundancy, unless in one location, like, for example, we acquired two businesses in st BARTs years and years ago. And even that wasn't an exercise in, you know, combining positions, because, again, no one's retiring off of those savings. It is about growth. So I put two at the top of the list. It's growth for the business. A lot of it has to do with using the marketing resources and tools that we have to drive the top line to get more leads. We have seen changes of 38 to 45% once moved on to our website platform and optimized in new leads and also conversions, just having better data to be able to make better decisions, to kind of grow the business. So that's that that's been good. But equally with that, though, is the talent within the company. So it kind of goes against the first point, which is, we're not looking to cut we're actually add a lot of staff, you know, usually to a lot of the businesses, to give them the resources that they maybe haven't invested in. But more importantly, we have a huge percentage of current Nocturne employees today that came up from the local brands that we've acquired over the time. And that, to me, is great. I'd love to find talent when we can, you know, when we're going to bring on a business where they can contribute. So we've got marketing, we've got finance, we have sales people that are all doing, you know, multiple brands, or at the nocturne level, that maybe would have even had a chance to do that, you know, staying with an individual, you know, local brands. So that, to me, those two things are the growth and then kind of taking advantage of great team members who wouldn't have had an opportunity to do more is is probably the most exciting and the thing that we look for, yeah,

Annie Holcombe  
have you had any owners that have because, like you said, Some want to stay for a transition, but have you had any owners that have transitioned over to being an employee that because they were like, I love the business, I want to stay in it, but I just don't want to own it anymore.

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, we've got a great example, the first one with Christina cassis, who sold Telluride sold exceptional stays to us, is still part of the organization, being the first. And so she's got the best of both worlds. She is unbelievably helpful to us. She was so connected. She built the business from scratch and just gave us a beautiful business that continues to flourish. And I, you know, find her to be an unbelievable resource to me and to the to the team. But again, it doesn't necessarily mean that she's working full time at this point, because she's helped transition the business, but is available and at a beckons, call, beck and call. Sometimes she'll travel with me to destinations to because she's known people longer than I have in meetings when we're looking at other places to acquire. So she's been a great resource. So that's the example on one end where, in a good way, she just won't go away, and we love it, which is really good. And then we've had, you know, others that have exited shorter. But I'd say the average is that between, you know, one and two years somewhere in there is usually the average people will will stay on with the transition, which is usually fulfilling for them as well. Because. Not doing the day to day, you know, the rest that stuff's all being handled, and they're really focusing on what they loved in the business and why they got started in it in the beginning, which was taking care of the homeowners and those relationships, and have the freedom of just selling a business and be able to do that but still stick around enough to contribute and to continue to earn on that as well, with an earn out which so we're not asking them to do that for free either. It gives them an opportunity if they believe in the upside still ahead then, and they stick around to help with that, it's even better because they can make more over the initial price that they received.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, absolutely. And they're there to answer your questions when many questions come up once you actually get, you know, totally behind the under the hood of understanding the business. So that's a big part of it, too. But so, I mean, as far as some of the things that you guys have brought under one roof, I think when we spoke the last time, you talked about homeowner marketing, regular marketing, revenue management, is the tech stack all still whatever they're on, or are you moving people onto the platforms that you prefer?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, we do move them to one tech stack. We think it's vital in in in so many ways. One, it gives us a best practices, which is, you know, fantastic, because there's always someone that's figured out a better trigger and automation for customer contact. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, and all the bolt ons, right, the things that would concierge and for finances to be able to pull everything together, it makes life a lot easier. And we do all that heavy lifting. They do not have to worry about migrating anything from the old system into the to our system. We do it all behind the scenes. All they have to do is train on it, and we make sure they're they're ready, and sometimes it takes a while, we try not to disrupt like peak season and start from scratch. But the benefit far outweighs just leaving everyone on their own, individual PMS and other systems. It's just too hard to help. It's tough because people are used to one system, but we're honest with them up front and said, Trust me, there will be benefits. I guarantee being able to do that. And it's usually the general managers all talking to each other to solve a problem. You know. Now, if you're a GM, you've got, you know, six, six different people you can ask doing the same job you're doing in different markets, and say, how do you account for this? And how are you accounting for this? And when can you do that? And so it sets up a natural kind of communication between peers too, which is great.

Annie Holcombe  
So last time we talked, also, we talked about, kind of your expansion plans, and one of the things that you had mentioned that you had your site set on down the road was going into the European market. You have the some in the Caribbean, with the WIM CO and then you have Julie bird's group in Cabo. And then you've got, I think you have, do you have do you have one in Canada? Or no, I can't remember, not in Canada. Not yet, not yet. Yeah, so, I mean, is that still something that you're thinking and I asked that just kind of like looking at where the market has been though, kind of the last year, I mean, Europe finally hit the peak that we did a year, you know, two years ago, and it started to slow down. So it's like, you know, I imagine that there's going to be some operators that are going to look towards next year and think, like, you know, maybe it's time for me to start thinking, you know, in those terms. And actually, it's funny, we're going to be in Italy in a couple of weeks for some conferences. And I was thinking about, we were looking at places to stay, and just the amount of the variations from country to country, and what's considered luxury, and what isn't is pretty. It's very stark, I think, in the terms of what we think as Americans, of what luxury is. But, you know, just maybe give us some, I don't know, some bread crumbs, or maybe some, you know, magic eight ball of what's going to happen for you guys down the road in that, in that realm?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah. I mean, the good news is still within North America and the island, there's still plenty for us to keep busy. So that's good, but yes, down the down the road, and maybe sooner than later, probably since last time we talked, only because we've been able to realize that there are some that have a similar model to us, that are operating maybe a little bit smaller. Because to me, the biggest thing is the exclusivity part of it, and Europe, for the most part, is not necessarily an exclusive market when it comes to to villas. And in a past life, we used to do a high end Villa program, and you could have VIP checking in and in one day. And the you know, the owner of the villa decided his niece said she wanted to stay for the week, and so go do something else. Like it's a very difficult thing to not have control those so doing it in the right way, which I think is there are some that have done that in Europe and have stayed committed to where they control the experience, and it doesn't become too spread out, where it's difficult to have consistency, and then you end up with a lot of potentially independent contractors that are taking care of disparate group of homes. We would do it in the same way that we've done with doctrine, which at concentration, where we control the experience and be able to do that. But I will say that there's been, in a good way, in a positive way, some players. Out there that have been focusing in that way of building their business that could be really interesting for us.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, interesting as far as leveraging the brand to drive traffic or bookings to different locations, has that been a focus for Nocturne?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, absolutely. I think we're still probably got room to go there, but to give credit to, you know, Erin, our CMO, and the work that she's done on really assessing the customer profiles and database and really understanding who they are so we market to them better and more personalized has been really helpful. And there is a crossover between the brands, for sure, even though some are drive markets, some are fly markets, there's a lot of room to improve. But yes, we have had a much stronger work done around the customer database to be able to customize communications, get them to stay more often, get them to experience others within the knock torn collection, too has been really helpful.

Annie Holcombe  
One thing that I it comes up in conversation a lot is that people will say that kind of the the luxury tier of travel, is kind of the last one that sort of gets impacted whenever there's economic challenges and kind of when people get dicey about traveling. Have you guys seen any, any big impacts? I mean, I feel like I've talked to some people on 30 a that it's kind of hit or miss. Some of them are just like they weren't expecting it, so priced too high, waited too long. I mean, just kind of the the standard, if you're not really watching, you know, watching things, but you know, have you guys seen anything? And like, what are you looking forward towards the future in terms of being able to isolate your groups, from maybe things that are happening, because I think that what people are saying is some of this stuff is going to, might take a lot, take longer, to kind of calm down, um, in terms of, like, international business and back and forth. I mean, what do you guys, I guess, what are you doing? Because that, you know, there's, there's so many schools of thought on it, but, I mean, you have a very specific model of business.

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, we don't take it for granted. I mean, everything you read says that, you know, the high net worth luxury traveler puts a higher priority on travel than they do other expenses and have more discretionary income to be able to do so. So we do see that as kind of a natural trend. But, you know, there's all types of affluent, right? We have aspirational, affluent. We have high net worth, ultra high net worth. So well, you know, well over 50% is high net worth or above. That means we have 50% that are sitting, you know, probably in a fluent and they are going to be a little bit more impacted on on how that works. So we don't ignore that at all. I think what we've been doing is leaning in on the things that we do really well, particularly when it comes to concierge services and the extra things that we can really build to make a perfect experience and competing much stronger against the resorts, because at this point, I feel really confident we could do everything you could do at a resort, and more except have strangers staring at you while you're doing it. So yeah, I think that's a that's a good thing. So yes, we are working hard. It goes back to what I talked about on the database and understanding the needs and the booking patterns, reminding people of the experiences and where they stayed. You know, in in past years, maybe they skipped a year and going back and reminding them that now's a good opportunity. But even in other industries, I've worked on the luxury side, what's happening now? And I kind of brought it up in in the beginning, I do find that luxury, when it does slow, even with everything else it doesn't slow, is bad, but it comes back faster, which is why the last couple of months, we've seen such a great ramp up, pretty much erasing that gap in the first, you know, part of the year that happened, when everyone was pausing, and so that that is definitely a strength of the luxury market, is when it comes back, it doesn't trickle. It comes in full force. It's like, switch goes off, and everyone's like, Okay, I'm comfortable now, boom, we're going to go ahead and spend so that's that's been nice. So we haven't really, really had a plan to discount, you know, if anything, it's a value add. And just reminding people why, why we're here, we kind of take the philosophy that, you know, we still have owners that we have to take care of, and they have expectations, and they would prefer that we get them more money, even for less nights, so it's less wear and tear than just keep it full for the sake of keeping it full. And they don't panic, because we have a really good relationship with them, and they're constantly getting information from us about how they're doing. We tell them how the market's doing. We're honest if we're under or above and what we can do to help them. So they look at us as good counsel and trust us, and so we take that pretty seriously, but it's been a partnership with the owners, and also a shorter pattern of when things slowed up, which is great. I mean, the fact that it's kind of roaring back before next year is a great sign, because it could have been all year. We could have waited at least a year to see when things might change from, you know, when things got a little glum there in February. Yeah. Yeah, people

Annie Holcombe  
will be glad to hear that. That's

Alex Husner  
yeah, exactly. You've mentioned your concierge program a couple times now, maybe tell us a little bit about how that works and like, what's similar or the same within Market to Market.

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, it's there different levels of concierge services or different amount of offerings, I think, just depending upon the destination and what people are into, I think it's fair to say that we talked about Cabo a little bit earlier, that they kind of lead our company with the most amount of concierge services. Really creative team. I mean, they can do anything when it comes to providing services. And so, you know, they're two out of three bookings. Are taking multiple concierge services with them, and then in other locations, we're trying to be appropriate, right? Like using 38 as an example, beach bonfires, right? Become really important. Finally, pictures, celebration, events, milestone, you know, private chef experiences, so it's a little bit different everywhere, but it's something we're doubling down on, and it's not anything that we super mark up either, right? Our philosophy is it's about the business, and that what we are as a brand. So I don't really look to make a huge profit on the concierge services, because we want to be the company that people just know that we're going to provide that. Because it's about the home and the experiences. I don't want to sit there and, you know, arbitrarily, you know, accelerate a profit on a private chef when I would rather them just know they can come to us, it's going to be taken care of. Also, our partners that are working with us to do those things feel that they're getting a fair shake as well. So that's how we're building it out. Is kind of coming from a real partnership level and making sure that it's unique and special. And, you know, a lot of times just exclusive for us,

Annie Holcombe  
on the on the concierge. And actually, Julie had come into, Julie come from Cabo. She had come in with her, with George, her her partner, and they stayed here, I think, was last, last in the last summer, and she tried out some concierge services in the market. And we were talking about the differences and like, so her expectations, like you said, she's kind of like the cream of the crop. She her team knows everything they do the best of the best. Her expectations are pretty high. And so how do you level, set that for your team? And then, like, maybe go in and provide feedback within a market to say how people can provide a better level of concierge service. Because I know just the Panhandle is very difficult to provide very high end services on a consistent level, from staffing and those type of things. And so I think that that's where, from a brand perspective, it is very hard to be consistent. But do you find that you can go in and work with people within a market to help them level up that service?

Scott Wiseman  
Well, usually the best thing to do is that we bring people in on our own team to be able to do that. So we added on 30 a I guess you know services director that fully takes on and is familiar with the market and fully take on that relationship. So this is where I was saying before we like to invest and after we even, you know, buy a company, to be able to do the things they know. Every founder that I've met and sold the business they go. I just wish I had time to do all that in the past, haven't really done it, so they know that the need is there for the most part. And we just try and make sure that we don't overdo it, right? We don't want to launch like 50 things when only like eight are really what mostly in demand and can be executed really well. So to your point, if we can't do it well, we won't do it. And we also try to be really careful. I'm not creating something that sounds really cool but isn't really practical for what people you know want. So I think that's a big, a big part of it is just understanding what the market is. Again, we don't rush into that either, because it's not anything that we want to disrupt. We want it to be accretive to the experience. So we take our time, we find the right people, and we build around a core group of services, and then expand from there again based on need. And if we're listening to the guests and even the homeowners, know sometimes they're like, I'd love for my home to be used with private chef experiences. What do I need to do? Should I up my pots and pans game and all fun stuff? But yeah, I think it's just being aware what's there and investing in your own people to help build it out and not just make it an independent contractor relationship, and hope that it works out for the best.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, yeah, we see a lot of companies that, as Annie mentioned, it's like they either they want to do more on concierge or tours and activities, but they don't really have time for it, and so there might be a little bit of effort that goes towards it at some point in the journey, but then the company isn't set up to be, you know, handling that as as a as a big part of the business, I think that's definitely a huge value add that you guys come in with, because that's, it's part of your brand promise, right? And I mean, you're staffing your own people to make sure that the quality control is there. And, you know, even beyond just the revenue opportunity, even if it's minimal. Mean, it's guest retention that you're you know, the experience could be vastly different if somebody booked at a home that did not have your team that's setting all those things up, and they're having to figure it out, or not figure it out, or have a bad experience because they didn't, you know that the vendor properly. So it's a big value add for you guys.

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, and I think the guests also, if there are multiple destinations over a period of time, understand what's happening within the local markets, that just because they had something you know, in one destination, it might not track or really be necessary in another, but all they care about is that there's going to be a pre arrival concierge that's talking to them about all the things that they can do and help you teach what's important for them is really all they're looking for is just that level of care and generosity when it comes to what they want to do while they're there, I think matters more than the actual thing itself. So I mean, back to when you were saying, Annie, it's really about how we deliver it that keeps it consistent and making it luxury and attentive, versus the specific service itself.

Annie Holcombe  
I wanted to ask you on that so I'm not sure. Do you guys use Airbnb at all for any of your properties? We do first for some of them. Yes, okay, so on that, the their their experiences, you know, obviously that kind of conflicts with the concierge services that you offer. How I'm assuming you probably opted out of having those at the properties, or maybe you didn't, I don't know. But how do you see that? Because that's been a big talking point, a big bone of contention with a lot of people, and sort of the dynamics of it going into somebody's property without the property manager and the property owner knowing that this is going on. Obviously, if they're working with you, they know that this is a possibility, and you've already vetted the people, and there's, you know, all the insurances in place and all the things that have been taken care of. But how do you see it with Airbnb trying to do that and be able and inserting experiences within properties?

Scott Wiseman  
I worked for a great British boss once who used the term, it's chalk and cheese.

Annie Holcombe  
It's chalk and cheese. What? Does that mean?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, I loved it. I didn't have the accent. But to me, it for what we do. It's, it's not the same, yeah, and it's not, you know, the experience and what we bring to it, I understand what they're trying to do, which is what we've known all along, right? It's about really being able to provide beyond just a house and beyond, you know, a villa or condo. It's about the experience in wrapping people in as much or as little, you know, care and service that they want. So we think it's, it's very different than what we would bring to the table. I'm sure there's clientele that would find that easy to do. But I think again, in the area that we play in, I think they feel a lot more comfortable speaking to us, the people that are actually putting it together, than dealing with an aggregator that's putting together different experiences. So I mean, look, the there's no reason they can't be successful at it, I just don't see it at the same level of attention to detail that we can provide.

Alex Husner  
Well, I mean, just, just the execution of it, but leading up to whenever the experience happens, and even when the vendor gets there to supply, if it's a chef or, you know, photography, or whatever it is like. I mean, you guys know the properties. You know exactly when somebody should be there, what's going to need to need to happen in order to get the home prepared for the service? And I mean, that doesn't really happen necessarily when you're using these outside vendors that they've never actually even been to the property or understand much about the stay. So definitely a different take on it. But I like how you guys are doing it better.

Scott Wiseman  
Well, the even the photographer, like our team, knows exactly when the perfect witching hour is, yeah, pictures, they're like, they literally like, No, it has to be between this hour and this hour. Hurry up and get it done. And that's when they need to do it. So just the fact that that that does make a difference in just even though it sounds like a little detail, but it literally is a picture, and so natural lighting kind of matters a bit.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, I'm interested, too. For the companies that you have acquired, were any of them doing their own concierge program before Nocturne came on?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, for for sure, some of them have had been doing it and that we've helped build out. Some have been doing it at a small level, some very basic but it's all different, all different sizes and shapes.

Annie Holcombe  
I think, I think I know we, when we talked to Julie, we first met her, she was telling us, like, the elaborate things that they have done, I mean, talking about, like, you know, booking camel rides out in the desert and ATVs and fire walkers and all kinds of, all kinds of crazy things that I wouldn't even think about going to Mexico. It just wasn't stuff that entered my mind. But she had all these really great little kind of escapes from the, you know, the town to go see to go see things. I think that's what she's done there, is if they could replicate that everywhere. I mean, I think that would be, that would be impressive. But I did want to ask you kind of, you know, opening up. A crystal ball. What are you seeing in travel and hospitality, maybe specific to luxury that is going on right now? Or, like, what, what's going to coming in the future? Like, do you see any big changes? Do you see any any things that are going to upend the industry, or maybe make people take notice, and specifically take notice of, like, vacation rentals? I think we're in a spotlight. People have been noticing us for a couple us for a couple of years now. But do you think there's any wholesale changes that are that are coming that maybe people need to be aware of?

Scott Wiseman  
It's a great question. My crystal ball is really a magic eight ball, and it's usually not very common to

Speaker 1  
me. I get a lot of Charles

Scott Wiseman  
it's a good question. I do think what strengthened, though, the industry in itself, is that it really isn't alternative accommodations anymore with what's happened, right? I think that we're kind of clearing that moniker in the space, and it's it's a real competitor to resort experiences, even those with Villa components within the resorts to be able to do that and put it forward. I see studies all the time that show that the demand for short term rental, particularly in the luxury side, actually can outstrip and is in some markets, the demand for resort and hotel, which I think is really exciting. So I think the big shift is, I think it's going to be a more mainstream product. People are gonna have to pay more attention to it. It's gonna be in the same conversations when you talk about what's happening with demand, and you know, it's usually what's happening with the air lift into a place, or what's happening then with on top of that, with the demand for hotels, short term rentals, are gonna be right there alongside kind of as a as its own industry, and standing tall. So I think that's going to be good for us as as we go forward. I still think that people say that they realize it, but they really haven't encountered fully what the short term rentals can do. At first, it was safety, security, you know, through the covid times. And to your point, what you mentioned about the concierge services, we're finding more and more people. When they have a concierge service that takes them off the property and they're into day four of their stay, that's when they start to say, well, we want to change. We want to do something back at the house. We're enjoying the house too much. We don't want to leave. So we're seeing that start to happen. So I think you're going to see more of these services in home, in experience again, see real private because they realize they can do anything that they want in the homes. I think that's going to continue to grow. So that's why, you know the experiential side of it is it matters just as much as the home, for sure, going going forward and building, building all that, and having the flexibility and and doing all that. So I think that's going to continue to strengthen in the next couple of years.

Alex Husner  
Yeah, that makes perfect sense, Scott, maybe to just kind of come back to where we started in the beginning as our wrap up. For anybody who's listening and they are thinking about selling their business, like, what does that process look like when you start that conversation? And what should people kind of know going into that process?

Scott Wiseman  
Yeah, that's it's a great question. The first thing I always say is, what's your dream like? What is your dream with this business? What did you hope for where where it is now? What would be the best possible scenario for you, and just listening and hearing whether it's like, well, I originally thought maybe I'd leave it to my kids, but now I don't want to do that. Or, you know, it is important for me that the, you know, employees I've had so long, or, you know, we would like to see them continue. We want to see the business prosper. It would, you know, break my heart if my name wasn't, if the name of the business wasn't still on there. I also would like to make sure I get X amount of money out of this, because I don't want to work anymore, or I would like to invest in what Nocturne is doing. So I think it's really understanding what they want first helps us understand what their motivation is. And kind of in the beginning, when I said, we're been super flexible, because everyone has a different way they want to do it. I mean, it's not like there's 50 different ways, but everyone definitely has a different focus, a different way that they want to do it. What it looks like, what the transaction looks like, how much they want to take out of it, what happens with the team members? So that's the first thing, is there. And then, of course, if they've got an advisor, an investment bank, it'll help them with the valuation of what they think that they're worth. Although I will say, I think the last two years, most people have spent the time trying to answer that question and preparing for a sale better so they're more educated today than they have been in the past, because they made the time to figure out all the Add backs that they won't run through the business that could count towards a stronger EBITDA and building the future bookings reports. So I do find that today, many of them are a lot more educated than were even a year ago or two years ago, because they put the time to try and figure it out and and see what's what's happening. It doesn't have to be pain. Painful. There's never any terrible conversations. Everything's upfront. It's, you know, again, it's a good sharing experience, even if it's someone that they're not ready to sell. But we spend time together. I feel good that they at least understand more of the process and how things will be looked at and what recent valuations look like all of that stuff, very transparent, very open. You know, we want them to feel really comfortable in when they make the decision that they're getting out of it what

Annie Holcombe  
they expected. That's great. So if anybody wants to start a conversation with your team about potentially selling their business, or maybe looking down the road to sell their business, how can they get in touch with your

Scott Wiseman  
team? Yeah, they can. They can reach out to me, me directly, which is absolutely fine. I welcome it. And also, Anthony Barrera, on our team, is super helpful to reach out as well. He can provide initial information and some materials about Nocturne as well about what we're doing. So either one of us, you can find us on the website, but we'd love to have a conversation. And again, I don't mind if you even say I'm thinking about it, but haven't done anything officially happy to you know, just have that conversation and set the table and give people something to think about.

Annie Holcombe  
Great. And we'll see you at brma in Vegas, I assume. So if anybody's wanting to tee up that conversation, they can grab you there. We'll put the information on your con your contact information in the show notes, for sure.

Alex Husner  
Perfect. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming back again. Scott. There's not too many people that we've had up back on as a repeat guest, but we were super excited to have you back on today with us. But if anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com and until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai