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Welcome to Alex & Annie: the real women of Vacation Rentals.
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With more than 35 years combined industry experience, Alex Hecer and Annie Holcomb have teamed up to connect the dots between inspiration and opportunity.
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Seeking to find the one story, idea, strategy, or decision that led to their guests to be a hard moment.
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Join them as they highlight the real stories behind the people and brands that have built vacation rentals into the $100 billion industry it is today.
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And now, it's time to get real and have some fun with your hosts, Alex and Annie.
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We'll start the show in just a minute, but first a word from our premier brand sponsor.
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My name's Chad, and I am the founder of Eco Escapes, a vacation rental management business based out of Canada, and I've been using Host Flea for just about a year now.
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Before we were using Hostflea as our PMS, a lot of the integrations take a lot of time, or you need to really know what you're doing.
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And that's where Hostfly came in, and they were able to help guide us along a lot of the integrations with the different channels with their exceptional customer service.
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Even like with our old PMS, they were familiar with it and how it worked.
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So it made the process of switching really easy with extracting a lot of the information they needed and transferring it over to Hostfleet.
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It just made the whole process super smooth and seamless.
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The best way that it's improved our guest experience and positive reviews is the level of consistency it has with all of the different channels.
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A lot of the work that we put into setting up the perfect sequence of automated messages and the templates and triggers with the emails and also their SMS functionality, which our old PMS didn't have, just helped a ton with getting a lot more five-star reviews across different platforms.
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One thing that really stood out to me is how much they are improving and willing to invest in future integrations, strengthening like their APIs.
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And they're also a preferred partner with Airbnb, and they just got the platinum status with VRBO.
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So to have that level of authority with those major OTAs also had a big factor in my decision.
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A lot of the issues that we encountered in our last property management software were alleviated completely.
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And any small issues that have came up, they were so quick to respond and help fix it.
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Working with the Host Flea team has been fantastic, not only because of how great the actual software is, but just the people that I've met.
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They're the kinds of people that I would be happy to go out for lunch with or grab a beer with.
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It's a lot more than just a working relationship.
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I would 100% recommend Host Flea to any of my friends or other operators in the business.
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Yeah, if someone else was on the fence about switching to Host Flee, I would tell them it'll probably be the best thing you do, and your business and revenue will increase tremendously from making that switch.
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Looking for a smarter way to manage your short-term rental operations?
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Get started with Hostfully and bring everything into one streamlined platform.
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Alex and Annie listeners, get free onboarding when you mention you heard about Hostfully from the Alex and Annie podcast.
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Click the link in the description to get started today.
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Welcome to Alex and Annie, The Real Women of Vacation Rentals.
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I'm Alex and I'm Annie.
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And we are joined today by Leo Walton of TruVie and Sarah Dupree of AirDNA.
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So good to see you both today.
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Good to see you both.
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So great to see you.
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I love the fact that we can connect Myrtle Beach, Panama City Beach, England, and Spain all on one call.
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This is like so much fun.
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So much fun.
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Before we get started, why don't we tell the audience a little bit about each of you?
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Sarah, start with you.
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Maybe give us your background and kind of how you came to be with Leo here.
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Yeah, sure.
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So I'm originally from South Carolina, should be here in the accident, which just comes and goes.
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In university, decided to study abroad, and I came to Spain and I've been here for 15 years and uh have lived in Barcelona ever since.
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Um and then yeah, I've been in the short-term rental industry, kind of by accident, fell into it.
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I was looking for a job in sales uh when I moved to Barcelona and was looking for a change and found AirDNA.
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I've been with AirDNA now, which is a data and analytics company specializing in the short-term rental sector uh for gosh, almost this will be 10 years coming up this this year.
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And Leo and I met about a year and a half ago, right, buddy?
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And um I was contacted by Will Slickers of GMH.
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They were running a European edition, and he dragged my arm in here, introduced me to Leo, and we just really got on.
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And so when the GMH uh Europe chapter ended for us, we decided to keep going.
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So we started later last year a new podcast called The Check In, which is all about the deals, the data, and the drama and short-term rentals.
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So yeah, it's a pleasure to be here with um both of you today, Alex and Annie.
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Thanks so much for the invite.
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That's awesome.
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And Leo.
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So can I just say as well to start that when we asked Sarah, or will ask Sarah to join Good Morning Hospital Europe, Sarah's like, yeah, sure, but I can only do it once a month.
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And then that once a month soon became every week because she was having so much fun with it.
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So it, you know, it really did blossom, like a friendship between us blossomed like really, really, really naturally.
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And we are the same type of person.
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You'll be you'll be surprised perhaps to hear that we've only met in person probably four times in our entire life.
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Um, and and normally that's to present something or host something on a stage as well.
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But um, so so we don't get to hang out very often very often in in person because of families, logistics, and life and all of that good stuff.
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But yeah, it's it it obviously, yeah, it was it was a complete accident, but a very happy accident.
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Yeah, I'm obviously one of the co-founders at True V.
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Um, you will uh we've obviously spoken before numerous times, but just to give a backstory, we we screen guests and we protect bookings.
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That's the the core of what we do.
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And my journey in the short-term rental industry began earlier than that in 2011 when I joined the team at One Fine Stay.
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There was they were quite at an early stage of their growth.
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And my first job was to try and convince homeowners to hand over the keys to their houses to us so that we could we could make money for them.
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So I was learning very much like you know, door-to-door, so sometimes four meetings a day in very bougie parts of West London, and um uh, you know, learned what people's objections to short-term rentals were quite quickly.
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So it was a very interesting, um, very interesting beginning.
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And yeah, I again definitely wasn't an accident for me like Sarah, but at that point, if you'd have told me 15 years later, I'd still be in the space, I might not have believed you.
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So yeah.
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Wow, what a journey.
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Both of you.
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And so in in upcoming news and events, uh, we're all heading to the Short Stay Summit in London, April 22nd, I believe it is.
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Um, and really excited for that.
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Annie and I have never attended this conference before, but we've only heard amazing things about it.
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It's just a one-day event, but it is very impactful and just a great turnout of of operators in in London and from far beyond that.
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But you guys have are playing a role.
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You're MCing the event.
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Maybe tell us a little bit about what we can expect.
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Sure.
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Sarah, do you want to go?
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I will because Leo, Leo is all in cahoots with the short stay summit because he he is on the board of the STAA.
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Um, but uh last year was my first year actually in attendance, and it is easily one of my favorite conferences.
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I think for a couple of reasons.
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One, it's one of the only conferences that I know of that has really been able to get policymakers at the conference and in part of those discussions.
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So they're part of roundtables, they're part of panels, which is huge for our industry.
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I think, especially over here in Europe on this side of the pond, it's um it's tricky.
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I know there's some areas of the US that have got a lot of restrictions, but for the most part in Europe, especially in major urban hubs, it has been a real challenge.
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And so the work that Andy and the rest of the team at SDA are doing in terms of advocacy is super important.
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And then the second thing is it's a one-day event.
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And so you really are super intentional about who you speak with, what you're talking about, you're meeting the right people, and you're not too tired.
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So it's a jam back today all day long, and then you get to go have some drinks with people that maybe you've only ever seen on a video call before, whether that's existing clients or people in the industry that maybe you partner with.
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And so for me, it's it's one of my favorite conferences, both for impactfulness as well as just having a good time.
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And um, yeah, Leo and I are gonna be answering the main stage again this year.
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We had an absolute blast last year.
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I think we didn't even eat all day because we were just running around too excited and too nervous.
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I was running on coffee.
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Um, but it was absolutely amazing.
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So really looking forward to it again this year, and the venue is is beautiful as well.
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I have to say, um, I have to say, Sarah, Sarah pretends she was nervous.
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Um, the the lights go up, right?
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The lights go down, sorry.
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And it's our first, it's our first, you know, for we didn't hadn't rehearsed, it was our first go at it.
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And I look at Sarah and she's like pumped, she's like ready to go.
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And um, I was a bit like, okay, um, I don't quite know what how we're gonna start this.
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And I I'm a complete like last-minute kid.
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I don't organize things, I don't plan, I like to be off the cuff.
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And I was like, I hope Sarah's okay with that.
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Sarah turned around and went, Oh, yeah, you know I do improv classes every Friday night.
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This was the role she was born to do.
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She blew me out of the water.
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I love, I've always wanted to take an improv class.
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Like that is something I've always wanted to do.
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I've heard that that is like one of the most uh like the best ways to disarm your fears um for being like public speaking and being on stage and stuff because you just kind of have to go with it and you like learn to adapt.
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Is that do you do so?
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Do you tap into that every time you're up on stage?
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I absolutely do.
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And also for me, it is a way to kind of escape.
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So it's a big stress reliever.
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Um, anything where I have to be fully present.
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And when you're an improv, you don't have the opportunity to do anything except for what is going on on that stage right now.
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And I think in today's day and age where we're so interconnected and we're always being pinged about something and we're always thinking about a hundred different things, to be able to really focus on one topic is rare.
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And also it's just fun.
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Uh the audience tends to be really gracious with you because they know it's the first time that you're ever doing this.
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And there's something beautiful about the kind of pass-through nature of it.
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Uh, one of my um, one of the girls in my theater that introduces the show is always says, what you're gonna see tonight has never been seen before and will never be seen again.
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And that's there's something really beautiful about that.
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So yeah, if you if you have the opportunity, um go go to um, I'm sure they do.
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I'm sure in Myrtle Beach, I can give you one in Charleston that a couple of my girlfriends from uni uh are are sort of key members of, but in Myrtle Beach, I'm sure they have some contacts.
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They'll send you some after the show.
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But they do things often called jams, which is like an open mic kind of, so there'll be real actors uh on the stage that you can interact with.
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And then there's also classes, but it's super fun.
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Wow, I'd definitely try that, Annie.
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That would be uh very entertaining.
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I've always wanted to do that.
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Yeah, I think that would be so much fun.
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I feel like Leo, I feel like Leo, you're kind of a natural improv person.
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I mean, you just kind of go with the flow.
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So I think it kind of that that's actually sort of like destiny for you and Sarah to be together.
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Yeah, it was nice, it's really nice to have someone who I think that's part of the the chemistry that works, isn't it?
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Is that we like to work in the same way, Sarah, right?
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And we're very, we're very up for taking risks and trying things and sort of putting a microphone in front of other people without much um without too much planning and just and just going with it.
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Um and then in terms of I find that that linking um MCing gig is cool because obviously you're you get to have a front row seat for all of the great talks that are happening all day.
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And then you feed off that.
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So, like, you know, what we would try and do was just be like, wow, wasn't that interesting when X said why about regulation or about AI or about this, that, and the other.
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And um, and then you feed that back into the room.
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And again, we kind of we we went with it, we were given free reign.
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So at one point we were like giving the microphone.
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There was a delay, I think, in a talk starting.
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So we started giving the microphone to the to the audience to ask them different things about what they've been learning from the talks.
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And it was great.
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It was, it was, it was really, really fun.
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And we see our job as being to commute to to try and hook the audience to the content that they're seeing, right?
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So it's like, how do we get them, how do we help them reflect on what they've just seen and hook them to the next thing that they're about to watch?
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Keep them in the room, right?
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So, you know, don't go anywhere because you're about to hear a really cool talk.
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Um, Alex and Annie will be on the main stage, right?
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So we'll be um we'll be we'll be introducing you.
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So it's so it's so we love it because we're real industry geeks and enthusiasts for short-term rentals, and we get to just have a front row seat for all the cool content that that's gonna be there.
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That's a perfect way to describe it.
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You really are you're you're kind of like guiding the audience through everything that they're seeing and and trying to get them to connect the dots, maybe if they miss something from the previous session.
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But I love that.
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And I would you not agree too when you're in that seat, you see you see it from a different vantage point than somebody in the audience because you can actually see the whole audience and you see what people are responding to.
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And I feel like just having that perspective and like gauging that level of seeing when things resonate when people are like, what?
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You know, it just gives you a very different perspective.
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I think that's right.
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And I think that's that takes me back to even just talking about the show in general.
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That's I think what the what the show really gets right.
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One day energy.
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And the one day energy translates to the main stage because you're not on your third day of hearing about regulation.
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You're you've probably had a keynote from a politician.
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You may disagree with some of what they've said, all of what they said.
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So you're probably quite, you've already got your opinions up, you're passionate, and then you want to see how that feeds back into the industry narrative.
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And that energy translates.
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And you're exactly right, Alex.
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Like when I was an audience member in previous years, because they asked me a few times to do it, but I I could never quite work and I could never quite reconcile it and get it joined the main stage.
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But so at other times I just watch sessions.
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You you definitely, yeah, you can't tell what other people are responding um well to and what they're not.
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But yeah, seeing everyone captivated by it or or not, but in this case, I think very much captivated by it is um yeah, is is is super cool.
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Okay, so I have a question.
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Just having watched a lot of British TV over the years and um seen House of Commons and how they behave, we're we're not gonna be in any of that.
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Like people are gonna like scream from the stage or throw tomatoes or anything like that.
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Like we don't have to worry about that, right?
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We don't have to disrespect on our stage.
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Good, good.
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Well, on that, what what are things that, from your perspective, um you've obviously seen more of the agenda than probably anybody and have a good sense of what's gonna be happening?
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I think we've seen some of the speakers.
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We know um we're gonna be interviewing Tim Rosolio um from VRBO and having some conversations with him about their programs.
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Like, what are the topics gonna be that you're interested in or you're really keen to to kind of see presented and discussed?
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For me, it's the panels and it's seeing seeing actual uh regulators and politicians in a room sitting face to face with those that their regulations are gonna impact.
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And so having everybody at the same table.
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Yeah, I think that's that's definitely that's definitely something that's very um strong for the for the short stay summit is not that not that this could happen, but you know, you as an operator, you could have the opportunity to collar your MP.
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Sorry, when I say MP, that's your like congressman or senator, right, is the equivalent.
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So um Sarah has to do British translations all the time.
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So yeah, so you could you you you could you you could grab them and say, Oh, I thought it was really interesting that you said about this and that and the other.
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So you're being around, being close to the decisions.
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And you know, I I think we all probably ascribe to the old saying that, you know, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu.
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And as an industry, we need we need to be aware of that.
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Like there's nothing uh more terrifying for a politician than meeting someone who might vote for them or not vote for them, as the case may be, because every four or five years, you know, you it's a job interview.
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You you you've got to, and and as an industry, I think it is one of those days where you could you cannot you cannot not take in the fact that you get a thousand, roughly a thousand people coming through the doors.
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Most of those people have one, two, three, four, five listings, you know, handful of listings.
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It represents that.
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:07.840
And then obviously you have all the big players, and we'll go on to talk about the platforms and the policymakers um speaking with the platform owners as well.
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:18.159
But just down at the host level, that's terrifying to a policymaker because they're like, oh my god, there's a whole room full of people who depend on this, or this is a big part of where their income comes from.
00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:19.679
So I think that's special.
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:27.600
Um, and then there has to be, and and there is that focus on what is it like to be doing business right now in the in the short-term rental industry.
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:44.399
And it goes beyond just the regulatory framework that is that is increasingly challenging across Europe and the UK, but onto how does um AI change that for people and what are the opportunities from AI, what are the larger OTAs doing in relation to it to AI?
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.080
But then how does that translate?
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:51.360
You look at more of the learning stages, um, the workshop stages, how does it translate to hosts?
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.559
How what what can they use to in to to improve their businesses?
00:16:54.559 --> 00:17:08.799
So we're trying to thread, we're trying to thread that whole thing together so that you can get the view of Tim Rosolio, you can get the view of someone from from Airbnb, someone from booking, but also how does that translate to me on the on the workshop stage when I want to apply that in in my business?
00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:10.799
And I think they've done a really good job job this year.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.599
I'm sure you'd agree, Sarah, threading that, threading that narrative.
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:21.359
Yeah, I'm also excited about the amount of Americans and people not from the UK that are that I've heard that are coming to this conference this year.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:30.559
So to me, it'll be interesting to see the dynamic change a little bit because last year for sure it was very um UK and slight European focus.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:39.200
But this year, just given a lot of the people who are coming to do sessions and and speak, uh, as well as operators that I know who's the first time are coming to this conference.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:46.319
I'm really keen to see kind of the fabric of it and and how it's gonna mold and change based on the new people that are coming.
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:47.759
So it's exciting to see as well.
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.359
Yeah, obviously this conference is making an impact because I've heard the same thing.
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.920
There are quite a few people from the US that are going.
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:58.559
Um, Alexis Miller, who's a friend of Annie and I, she's in Maine and she's coming.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:04.480
I thought, wow my gosh, you guys are really reaching a wide audience to get people coming from literally all over the US.
00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:14.079
But I do want to get into AI, but I also want to, before we move on to that, how is it that this conference has been able to get these policymakers to come to the conference?
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:23.279
Because I mean, that's been something we've talked about for years of, you know, why don't we try and get these people in the room so that they can understand, you know, more about the industry, what it is, what it isn't.
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:29.200
And to your point, Leo, I mean, they don't know when they walk up to somebody if that person has one unit or if they have a thousand units.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:36.640
And I think, you know, having being able to see that perspective, you know, it's gotta be great for, you know, the local industry there.
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.160
But how did that happen?
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:39.200
Do you know?
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:44.160
Yeah, so uh Sarah, I'll take this because I think it is quite UK UK applicable, isn't it?
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:48.240
But I'm sure some some of what's going on here is also happening in Europe with the EHHA.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:58.000
So I think what the UK, what makes the UK simpler than say the US is there's one place that you go to to speak to politicians, and that's Westminster.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.440
So that is the House of Commons, the the Palace of Westminster.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:11.039
And because we don't, because we have an unelected second chamber, there is only the only the elected body had there's only one elected body and it holds all the power.
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:18.160
So you have 600 and let's say 650 MPs and a prime minister, and that it and that is where all the decisions get made.
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:50.799
So from a networking liaising, trying to meet people perspective, Star has um, you know, through and also through working with um policy advisors, have um has basically spent the last seven, eight years really trying to make roots with with the community, understand what the the talking points are, have meetings, um, explain what our viewpoint might be on certain issues, try and be in the conversation again, not necessarily just on the outside um saying no to things, but very much on the inside.
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:51.920
How can we work together?
00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:57.039
And I think that process, as I say, Alex, is made easier because again, I might be wrong here.
00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.680
So so I'm not, I'm I might be talking about things I don't really understand.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:01.200
So please call me out if you think I'm wrong.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:05.680
But you know, in the US, you have to go to your local city hall, potentially, right?
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:10.240
In your local in your local state, and then there might be decisions that happen nationally.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.680
So to get that lobbying effort together, to get that like you know, policy effort together is a big lift.
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:27.200
Whereas in the UK, it's one place and and and you know, just for sustained efforts, you can really get to know people and how decisions get made, and therefore ensure that they understand what we're trying to achieve by being in the industry.
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:34.160
And and we, you know, it not doesn't mean you have to win every every conversation, but it stops it being a battle and make sure it is a conversation.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:35.039
Yeah, I love that.
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:56.720
I think that that is something that, you know, I I um having worked for some European companies and their understanding of the US, and that's the complexity that we have, is that you know, always think of it as like, you know, the US is the size of so much of, you know, like if you put together so many countries in Europe, so you're thinking like each state is its own little country and has its own layers of government and like it does, it does put a lot of complexity.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:10.880
But I think that the nice thing is that I think, you know, us coming over from the US is we can see that and see like how those conversations are happening and maybe figure out like, okay, where can we remove some of the layers of conversations that are having to get to get to results quicker?
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:17.920
So I I love that there is so many US people coming to this because I think it's it's it's super helpful for us to see both sides of it.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:24.000
It's just we all I think we all get frustrated being in our own little echo chambers of of challenges and problems.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:29.440
And it's nice to see that other people have similar problems and to see how they're, you know, how they're addressing them.
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:30.799
So I'm excited to see that.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:34.160
But it's it's funny kind of on the note, like just looking at other events.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.160
We're gonna be um at Scale Barcelona and the women's event in the fall.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:43.279
And there's a lot of, you know, I commented this morning on somebody's post, there's a large contingent from the US coming to that.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:47.759
It's like there's not there's like this switch of, you know, role reversal, I guess you would say.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:59.279
But it's it's really great to see how other operators and other entities um tackle this business that I think all of us on this call for sure love, but that, you know, the people that we work with in this industry love.
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.079
And And want to see succeed and flourish.
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:05.759
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00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:31.279
Those that are coming from the US bring a different perspective, which tends to be a lot more entrepreneurial.
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:37.519
There tends to be a lot from my experience, there's a lot less regulation outside of a specific market in the US.
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:44.720
And so it's much less of an issue than it has been in Europe, which is also why we've had to kind of band together and create these associations and things like that.
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:52.799
But the the innovative nature of operators in the US to me is what I think is amazing that it's being shared at this conference.
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:59.200
So on one side, it's a policy and something that Europe is great at, which is getting everybody in the same room.
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:05.839
And if you have a difference of opinion and sitting down and gentlemanly having a chat about it, uh or is in the US, it's like, great, here's the rule.
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:07.119
How do we get around it?
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:13.759
And so I really like putting those two people in a room together because we can absolutely learn from each other.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:14.559
So yeah.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:28.799
Yeah, one thing that I've I've learned just in a little bit of experience and working with operators in the UK through my involvement with Boom is that a lot of them, they don't have nearly as complicated of tech stacks as we do over here.
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.759
And I'm just curious, like, why do you think that is?
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.640
I mean, uh, not better for better or worse.
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:43.359
Like, why is it that, and I wouldn't say it's just the UK, but really just European in general, it's it's less um complicated what they put together to operate the business.
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:47.599
I think um, oh, Sarah and I could talk a long time on this one, couldn't we?
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:48.400
We could, I guess.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.599
Uh this is this is this is it the Alex, it's such a good question.
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:52.880
Such a good question.
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.119
Um, so I love the American mindset.
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.319
I love doing business in the US.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.160
I've said that, I've said this to you both, I'm sure, at numerous times when I've seen you in the US.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.480
Apart from how jet-legged I am when I'm there.
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:04.720
I'm I'm having I'm having the time of my life.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:12.480
I'm having the time of my life, which as True V, you know, we you know, uh huge, huge percentage of our clients are based in the US.
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:24.559
And there is a mindset of I'm gonna invest in myself, I'm gonna invest in my business, I'm gonna grow my um, I'm gonna grow my offering and I'm gonna be more professional.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:26.400
And I I say this a lot.
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.640
I'm not the only one who says it, so but a lot of people say this.
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:34.319
Professionalism is not about how big you are, it's about how you want to host and how you want to do your job.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:41.279
And there's a lot of people who've got one, two, three, four, five listings, and they're coming to everything, they want to pick up new bits of tech and they want to learn.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:48.240
There is a slight mindset shift, potentially in Europe and the UK, around if a spreadsheet will do, just use a spreadsheet.
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:53.359
And it's about kind of like saving money as opposed to investing money in your in in your business.
00:26:53.359 --> 00:27:02.799
Now, these are very broad stereotypes, of course, and there's and there's um lots of clients in the US that are investing lots, even the even the really, really small ones that are investing lots in building out their tech stack.
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:12.559
So I think you just probably need to give people a bit more of a gentle encouragement in the UK to think about how a tool or a piece of a pie a piece of SaaS will will in fact help them grow their business.
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:17.920
And and there's a maybe a there's there's a bit more caution around what you might invest in.
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:23.039
So you need to kind of the the the the the conversations become more complicated.
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:33.519
But then, Alex, to your point, potentially what that does mean is you know potentially it's death by Chrome tab or the other way, which is you buy everything, you buy everything and you end up with a bit of a mishmash.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:43.200
And so the idea that you could use a software that allows you to do everything and it simplifies it for you and just gives you the bits of what you want could could could could be really appealing.
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:49.599
And and I don't think either is either is better than the other, but selling in both markets, it's certainly what I certainly what I notice.
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:54.319
So I think that you know that there's more caution and people take their time over decisions.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:28:00.799
And again, as if a spreadsheet will do, they might stick with the spreadsheet versus let's invest, let's grow, let's let's try things out.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:02.079
That's me trying to be diplomatic.
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:10.400
I if we were off camera, off camera, maybe I'd be asked over a glass of wine then for sure.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:18.400
Yeah, I I mean I think totally agree with what Leo has said in terms of this mindset of investing in oneself and in one's business.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.480
I'll use a parallel.
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.279
You run a successful business in America, what do you do?
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.240
You franchise, you open more, you open a second one.
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.279
What do you do in Europe?
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:28.240
You work half the time.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.759
You have a successful restaurant in Barcelona, you're opening two days a week.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:32.720
And that's it.
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:40.079
And you're opening at weird hours when nobody wants to come and you don't care because it's going to be successful anyway, and you go home and you enjoy your holiday.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:42.960
And so it's a very different kind of mindset in general in Europe.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:49.359
In the UK, they're they're a little bit more um, I would say, workhorses for sure than you know.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:56.880
It's interesting, it's interesting because on the tech stack conversation, it's like I think the the Latin American market, especially Mexico, is very much similar.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.559
Like they just don't adopt technology.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:04.480
But what is interesting to me is that in Europe, the distribution conversation is completely opposite from the US.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:10.480
The US is like, I only need a few channels, I'm good with these three, or you've got people, I'm good with one, which is insane.
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:11.599
We talk about that all the time.
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.079
But in Europe, it's like I have a new channel, great, awesome.
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:16.000
I've got 25, what's 26?
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.519
You know, like they that that is something that they don't, they don't hesitate at.
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:21.759
So it is an interesting mindset about it.
00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:33.680
But I also think, like, kind of Sarah, to your point, it's like people, um, if they think that it's gonna add more, like, even if it, even if it like removes some friction initially, like in the long term, it would remove friction and make their day easier.
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:35.839
It's like it's one more thing that they have to consider.
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:38.319
And they're just like, I want that work-life balance.
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:46.799
I think that's so important in in the UK, but in Europe in general, that it's like, you know, your lives is in these very um tight compartments.
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:51.519
You know, it's like you've got work, you've got your home, you've got your, you know, and you've got you, you've got your pleasure and your pain.
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:54.160
And you don't want to like have the two cross over.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:59.759
And so like it's like adding more technology could potentially add more to that pain and remove some of the time for pleasure.
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:14.400
And I think that that's something that Americans are so like capitalistic in nature, and just like we want to like do everything and make take every opportunity to make money at every turn and and optimize everything that we're just constantly adding on to it.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:25.200
So there's, I was like, it's it's just like with anything, that the truth and the happiness lies somewhere in the middle where that actually is is just dependent upon your business and and what you want.
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:34.720
But it's about kind of at the end of the day, it's about the education and helping people understand the benefits, um, you know, kind of outweigh the, I guess, the worry of it.
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:35.279
Yeah.
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:50.079
And one thing I wanted to add on that too, and this can kind of segue us into AI, but you know, when we look back on the last couple of years, I don't know about you guys, but I'm not any less busy than I was before we were all utilizing AI in our daily lives.
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:52.880
I mean, certainly has it helped up 1000%.
00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:05.039
But I think, you know, we just keep introducing more and more things to keep filling up the bucket and our cup and our daily things that we have to do, that it's like, you know, at what point, to what, to what end, I guess?
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:10.640
I mean, at what point do we say, okay, like let's actually enjoy being able to breathe?
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:16.079
We, when we were at DARM, um, it was the uh Zach Klas, I believe his name was.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:19.440
He's the founder of OpenAI that came and spoke to us.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:27.920
And he's he painted this beautiful picture of where he sees in a in the good world of everything goes well, what AI will do to life in general.
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:34.799
And that basically it's that it in reality, it will give you more time to not have to be doing the tasks and all the things that we're talking about now.
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:42.079
But it's like, okay, we've eliminated having to do some of these tasks, but we still are not seeing that balance or enjoyability of life yet.
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:48.079
And I, you know, do you feel that operators that are using AI are are in the UK are are feeling that way too?
00:31:48.319 --> 00:32:10.000
Yeah, I I think I think what's really interesting is when when you talk about that, Alex, where my mind instantly goes is the pinch points in my day, which would be picking up my kids from nursery, picking them up from daycare and things like that, or trying to spend some quality time with them in the evening while you know I sit in Europe, so my emails and Slack messages are probably pinging off still 6, 7 p.m.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.559
for me because uh the American market's still going strong.
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:24.240
And I agree, like, you know, if we have to allow ourselves to be slightly liberated from that to ensure that we can have quality time with the people around us, but still be productive because the heart of being human is that everybody wants to be productive.
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.519
That that in itself is what drives a lot of human happiness, isn't it?
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:41.200
But it's making sure that we're not it that we're keeping that back to what you said, Andy, that like balance of being productive, running our businesses, trying to grow, but but not at the expense of like sacrificing family time or weekends or holidays and things like that.
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:49.759
And I think Alex, to answer the question, that is the great promise that we're hearing about AI as an industry at the moment.
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.720
And I think it is appealing to the European mindset.
00:32:52.720 --> 00:33:02.480
What I would say though is in traditional parts of the Mediterranean, which is maybe, and you talked about UK, but I'll make it about Europe because it's so closely linked.
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:06.319
In traditional parts of the Mediterranean, these guys have been doing businesses.
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:10.000
They've been doing business for 30, 40, 50 years sometimes.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:26.480
These businesses have been in families, and um, which is why they're very keen to pick up new channels because it's new marketing, but very reticent to take on extra process because again, you like you say, uh Alex, the promise of AI is I'm I'm not I'm no less busy because I'm finding new things to do.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:51.839
So I do think I do think that I do think that mindset of you know AI can help liberate you from financial, you know, doing your accounts, from scheduling your cleaners, things of things of that nature is is certainly very appealing to that market because I think the mindset of that operator and a UK operator is firmly in the idea that if I got the time back, I would want to be thinking about how I can delight my guests more.
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:58.240
And I'd like to be thinking about how I can get them to come back to me often direct without, you know, the channels are amazing, great.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.799
Thank God I've got all these different channels, 27 now.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:06.880
But if I can put some more time into that in-state experience, I'm gonna help hopefully get some of those to come back directly next time.
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:22.639
So putting that hospitality back into the job, because that isn't that isn't the European mindset, like restaurants, bars, things that where you come over as a tourist and they're just so welcoming and they work all these hours to kind of pull you in, you know, that the the I think that mindset exists a lot amongst a lot of European hosts.
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:23.519
Would you agree, sir?
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:26.800
Yeah, I I would completely agree with that.
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:42.400
Um, I also think the trap of AI that we're in currently, because we haven't quite figured it out and it's developing much more rapidly than we are or than our processes are, is because of AI, the expectation is now that we can do more in less time because with AI we're so efficient.
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:48.239
And so rather than having the same workload and having AI do it and having that free time, we're just filling it with more things.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:49.360
It's like, great, okay.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:55.199
But rather than contacting 10 people today, I can have 12 meetings because now AI does all my nose.
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:57.920
Well, I'm still in those meetings.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.400
So it feels like we're doing more.
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:26.000
And and I think it's one of the biggest challenges that operators are going to face with AI uh becoming much more prevalent in their businesses is how do we find those things that AI can absolutely help with that they can streamline that doesn't need to be done by a human versus focusing 80 plus percent of our time only on those things that should, especially in hospitality, be done by a warm, friendly face uh and a real human being.
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:31.280
And I think the operators who are able to separate those things out effectively are gonna be the ones who come out on top.
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:31.599
Yeah.
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:39.760
I feel like I feel like this is a conversation that's gonna like every every week it's gonna be a different angle, a different because like you said, it's just changing so much.
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:42.000
And I think that it's it's so crazy.
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.239
I I've we've had this conversation over the last couple of weeks.
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:48.320
Like the number of people that'll reach out and say, like, hey, I am an AI expert.
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:50.639
And then you kind of go like, oh, well, I've never heard of them before.
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:51.360
What are they doing?
00:35:51.360 --> 00:36:00.000
Well, last week they were in the banking industry or they were a chef, or you know, but all of a sudden everybody's an AI expert because AI has given them the confidence to be this expert.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.519
And it's like, oh my gosh, like this is just, it's, it's going off the rails so quickly.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:04.559
I don't know what to do with it.
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:10.239
But so I'm like, I I think I'm like the um between Alex and I, I'm I'm like, I'm not the naysayer.
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.639
I've definitely I use it, I understand it.
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:14.320
I'm still the warm fuzzy.
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:16.800
So it's like it's still scary to me.
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:21.920
But I I'm trying to like relinquish some control of my day to it.
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.239
And I think where it goes is anybody's guess.
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:29.840
We're gonna revisit this next time, you know, this time next year, and we'll probably be like, yeah, AI's taking care of everything.
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:31.440
I can go to the spa.
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:33.760
Probably not, but that would that's my dream.
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:34.960
That's my dream.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:41.039
Um, but um, I think you know, we're gonna have a lot of conversation about this at the at the conference.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:45.440
And so we're super excited to to be there and and really just soak all of this in.
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:51.199
The thought of be going to one day event is uh we just don't have that over here.
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:54.880
Like everything is multi-day events, so it's gonna be gonna be interesting to do that.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:59.679
So don't want to belabor any of the of the um conversations that'll happen there.
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:00.800
Excited about it.
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:01.440
We'll share that.
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:10.000
But um I think there's an event, there's actually something, Leo, that you've been involved in um that Humphrey's been very keen on um winning.
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.639
And I think that he's not, he hasn't been nominated yet.
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.599
So I I I feel like I don't know where to go with this.
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:19.519
But um, why don't you tell us about the true the true V True Visionaries?
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:21.360
Um is it an award?
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:29.280
I can't remember like how you guys are actually labeling it, but this has been an exciting and it's been fun over here to see the posts and the conversations going on about it.
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:33.039
And so really excited to see when you actually share it with everybody.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:34.079
Yeah, thanks.
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:34.880
Thanks, Annie.
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:42.800
Um, and I hope you've ordered your 12, your sort of Humphrey Bowl's 2027 calendar as well as the case.
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:44.000
He sent it to me.
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.760
I I I like the digital version, so I can put it on my desktop.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:51.760
Now I don't know that I'm gonna open it every month, but I have it.
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:53.679
I love that.
00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:54.159
I love that.
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:55.360
Okay, so that's what the fans want.
00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:56.320
They want the digital version.
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:57.840
The digital version.
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:01.280
Yeah, so the the true visionaries, it it's a guide.
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:10.079
It's a digital guide of the um, we're trying to showcase the unsung heroes, people that are going the extra mile to help people improve how they host.
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:16.880
Now, that might be from the angle of like helping you grow your revenues, it might help you sort of liberate yourself from your operations, as we've just talked about.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:24.000
It could be um helping fight the good fight of regulation, all the angles of hosting that we all know and love and debate on a weekly basis.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:30.559
Um, the people who are maybe running mastermind groups, you know, and they are really like in the trenches with their people.
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.760
And you might not, there might not be a household name yet, you might not have heard of them.
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:41.760
We're trying to bring this list together so that people can learn from these people and ultimately, you know, find them and scale up because they because they get to benefit from them.
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:49.679
So there's no there's no fluff, it's people that we um that have been nominated and the people that we um really believe in that are that are making a difference.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:51.039
That's great.
00:38:51.039 --> 00:39:01.039
Well, you guys are definitely leading the charge over there, so you've got a lot of things going on between your uh the businesses that you work for and the events, and then uh this great project too.
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:04.400
So we're super excited to be over there and on stage.
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:09.039
And let's see, just a by the time this airs, probably about a month from when this will air.
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:10.239
So very excited.
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:13.199
Um it's so exciting to think that we'll get to spend some time together.
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:18.400
And I always say to people, look, it's a one-day show, so there's no excuse for being hungover on the day.
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:19.760
That's why I always tell my team.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:23.920
But but there's no excuse to not be hungover the day after.
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:25.119
That's a remote.
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:26.320
That's perfect.
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:26.960
There you go.
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:28.480
European mentality.
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:29.039
Yeah.
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:33.119
Well, we're looking forward to you showing us around, giving us the five-pound tour.
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:33.920
I don't know what you'd say.
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.039
I guess you say five-pound tour.
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:36.880
Fish and chips, you know.
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.599
Fish and chips in a pint is what I hear.
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:41.760
Yeah, 100%.
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:42.320
100%.
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:45.119
You won't you won't need to eat for a week if you have fish and chips in a pint.
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.519
You'll be really fine.
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:51.599
Uh is are there still tickets available?
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:53.440
Can people still set up to come?
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.000
Yeah.
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.079
Well, let's put a yeah, yeah, let's put a link out.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:56.880
Yeah, I'm sure there is.
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:58.159
Yeah, I'm sure they'll be able to get.
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:07.360
I know they're selling out fast, but yeah, the um, if you go to the um Short Stay Summit uh website, you'll find uh you'll find tickets uh uh available there to buy.
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:07.840
Okay.
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:12.000
And if anybody wants to get in touch with you guys, uh what's the best way for them to reach out to you personally?
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.199
LinkedIn, I guess.
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:21.280
I'm terrible at keeping track of my LinkedIn messages, but I do I do keep track of the fact that I get them and leave them as unread in my inbox.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.760
So now I can come back to them and check them like once a week.
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:24.960
But LinkedIn is probably the same.
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:25.920
I do the same thing.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:33.519
I think I think if you want to message Sarah, message me and I'll pass the message on to Sarah because I because I do.
00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:34.960
Because that's usually how it works.
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:35.920
That's how it works in our life.
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:44.639
Um, yeah, no, no, so yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, same, and uh Instagram, Leo F Walton.
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:49.840
Um, or you can find us the the the check-in pod is also on on uh LinkedIn and Instagram as well.
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:50.719
Awesome, great.
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:55.760
Well, if anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, please go to alexandanipodcast.com.
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:58.880
And until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody.
