WEBVTT
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Welcome to Alex Bananny, the real women of Vacation Rentals.
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With more than 35 years combined industry experience, Alex Heusser and Annie Holcomb have teamed up to connect the dots between inspiration and opportunity.
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Seeking to find the one story, idea, strategy, or decision that led to their guests' big aha moment.
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Join them as they highlight the real stories behind the people and brands that have built vacation rentals into the$100 billion industry it is today.
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And now, it's time to get real and have some fun with your hosts, Alex and Annie.
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We'll start the show in just a minute.
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But first, a word from our premier brand sponsor.
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My name is Sally Lockard.
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I'm the head of sales marketing at Hoseva.
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We have been working with my BookingPal since about 2019.
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Hoseva is a full service property manager and software company.
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We manage about 6,000 properties over 16 countries, over a myriad of services.
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At Hoseva, we have our own custom-built PMS where we build our own direct channel connections.
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The reason we decided to partner with BookingPal is because they were able to expand our reach.
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BookingPal really stays on top of making sure that all partners have easy API access to add on the channels, even for people like us who have our own channel connections.
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Implementing the integrations with MyBookingPal have allowed our teams, you know, more time and more trust and less worry on our sides, right?
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We know things are working.
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The reason Booking Pow was a good strategic choice for our business was we specifically wanted to connect to some of the channels that they had access to that nobody else did.
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Having the exclusive ability to distribute to homes and hideaways by Hyde has been a big plus for us.
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We are aggressively growing in the independent hotel and multifamily sector where being able to attract those travelers that are used to staying in a hotel like a high and feeling safe with that kind of brand has been really increasing when it comes to conversion and numbers for our revenue side for these type of properties.
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I would say BookingPal as a partner is a really good loyal friendship, right?
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You know, we have a nice integration that's obviously put deep rooted in to tech, right?
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But the teams really speak well together and we have a direct contact if we need it.
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It really is important to us to have 24-7 customer support, and we really value that in our partners.
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I would definitely recommend my BookingPills to others.
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It has just helped us to continue to grow and be in front of as many travelers as possible.
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And it's helped us to do that with ease and with partners that we feel like we can trust.
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Click the link in the description to learn more.
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Welcome to Alex Nanny the Reliment of Vacation Rentals.
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I'm Alex.
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And I'm Annie.
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And we are joined by two ladies today.
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We have Betsy Steckler, who is the Regional Director for Partner Services North America, which includes VacationRentals with Booking.com, and Jennifer Easterday, who is the head of global human rights for booking.com.
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So great to see you ladies today.
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Thank you for having us.
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Thank you for joining us.
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I think we have a very important topic of conversation to get to.
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But before we do, why don't you give yourself just a little introduction to our audience about your positions at Booking.com.
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Jennifer Easterday, head of human rights at Booking.com.
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So at Booking.com, our human rights program is based in our legal and compliance function.
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So I'm a US BARD lawyer, actually from San Francisco, California.
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But I am currently living in Europe and I've been at Booking.com for about five years now, setting up and managing our human rights program.
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And I'm Betsy Steckler, the regional director for our North American uh partner services team.
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We work directly with the partners on a day-to-day basis at their local sites.
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Um I am also based uh out of San Francisco, um, and I've been with Booking almost uh 12 years.
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Oh, wow, long time.
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That's awesome.
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Very cool.
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And you've got a nice New York City background behind you, and you actually are in New York City.
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So that's cool.
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Awesome.
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So tell us a little bit about, I mean, what is the partner services department at booking.com?
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What is your team responsible for?
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What does that mean?
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The way to think about it, all of us know booking as very much a global platform.
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And while we operate at incredible scale, my team is really focusing on understanding those local needs, insights, and understanding the communities in which our partners operate.
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And this allows us to support partner success very much at a local level.
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And when we talk about partners, that could be a vacation rental, that can be a hotel, that can be a group in which we support.
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But most importantly, we meet partners where they're at in their own markets.
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So this is about really understanding the global reach and translating that into local insights, ensuring that whether or not you're managing a portfolio in Orlando, Florida, or a single home in Aspen, you definitely feel supported, heard, and empowered to welcome travelers from anywhere in the world.
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Awesome.
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So are you on Ian Auckland's team then?
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I am.
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Okay, great.
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We love Ian's great.
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We love talking with him.
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Um, so uh I guess like just to really understand how your teams work together.
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Maybe Jennifer, tell us a little bit about your role.
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You said with human rights, but how does that role interact with this, you know, with um Betsy's team?
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Yeah, great question.
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So as I said, we sit in in the legal and compliance team.
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So we're really a sort of corporate function, and we work with a lot of different teams within booking.com, sort of depending on the issue, the topic, or what we're trying to achieve.
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Um, and in this case, when it comes to really working to equip our partners and to help raise awareness about an issue as important as human rights and human trafficking in this specific case, um, we work with teams like Betsy's to help really make sure that the message that we're sending and the support that we're able to give to our partners is really what our partners need in that specific local context.
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And also really resonates with them and supports them and is very market specific.
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So we want to make sure that we have a very context-relevant and localized support and training and awareness for our partners when it comes to topics as complex and sensitive as human rights.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Not a small undertaking there by any means.
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Um, Betsy, how does your team work with Jennifer's team?
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How do you support the human rights strategy?
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Yeah, Jennifer covered some of it.
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It's very much about the strategy lives uh with her and the human rights team.
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And ultimately, our team is connecting it back to the local partners, but more importantly, identifying where we can have localized uh efforts.
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So it's beyond just sending an email.
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We host local activities, we look for market-specific events, we hope to use those local touch points as a way to build awareness around human rights in a way that feels very relevant to that community.
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One community may need a different level of education than maybe another community.
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And our teams are taking that strategy and then helping form that into very locally relevant opportunities.
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And it's about ensuring that we get to the point of where our partners are doing business.
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And that includes both vacation rentals and that includes hotels.
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Yeah, so it's a it's an interesting topic.
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I learned several things about it a few years ago.
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I actually saw a story on it around the Super Bowl.
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I have to admit, I was shocked at kind of the numbers that were surrounding just the Super Bowl.
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Um, but obviously there was a very large, you know, global event that's coming to the U.S.
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So it's very important, I think, to get this, get this word out there.
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So maybe, Jennifer, tell us a little bit about kind of, I mean, you obviously, if you have a department that's that's looking at this, this is a serious, the serious matter within the organization.
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But what is um, you know, what is the overall approach to this?
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I mean, you're you're talking, this is something that happens in almost every corner of the world, sadly.
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So you you do, like you said, you have different market approaches, but um, from a from a company level, what is what is the actual approach to human rights and kind of the advocacy towards this?
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Yeah, thank you.
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That's a it's a good question.
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And I think human rights is a really loaded term sometimes.
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So we also try to break it down into specific issues, and we're really trying to understand what are the different topics and risks that are really specific to booking.com, but also to our partners and our travelers and people who are using our platform.
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So we take that approach and we try to understand what is our role at booking.com to help prevent our business operations or just our industry and the way that our travel and tourism industry works from having that negative impact on the rights of our travelers and our community members and our staff and our employees.
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And so it's really trying to look at that holistically and put right tools in the hands of people so that they also know what they can do.
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So we do a lot of things internally at Booking.com, looking at our own business and to make sure that we're running a respectful business and a sort of inclusive business when it comes to human rights.
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But then we also want our business partners to be able to do the same and feel empowered and equipped to run their businesses in the same way and really understand the value of those business practices to having a successful short-term rental, for example, or a hotel, or any of the other sort of services and travel services that we provide.
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Um, I should just mention we're not sort of making this up as we go along.
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So our practices are based in international standards, UN guiding principles on business and human rights.
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There's this whole area of practice that we are trying to follow.
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We strive to follow that guidance, and we work with a lot of experts and community members and stakeholders as well to make sure that we get it right because we know it is complex and it really does take that whole community effort to make sure that we're getting it right.
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Betsy, could you give an example?
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I mean, how do you actually engage with property managers and hosts about this topic?
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Like what is that, how do you assist?
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Like, what does the conversation look like?
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Yeah, it's a it's a great question.
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And I think we're constantly looking at how do we evolve our approach.
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We kicked off our support with It's a Penalty last year, and we've tried some different methods.
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Some of those methods involve very nuanced conversations, some very locally relevant, um, maybe at a property level or maybe with a specific host.
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But it's also really understanding that we understand that the vacation rental space itself is so localized.
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They have this really unique vantage point that a large group or hotel chain may not have.
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Um they know their neighborhoods.
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Um they have an understanding of potentially things that go on there or potentially they're aware of or observe potentially opportunities for us to come in and help with some of that messaging.
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So if we're thinking about it from a they're a large-scale professional or even a solo entrepreneur, the community aspect is important.
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So one of the things that we try to do is really understanding both the industry piece as well as leveraging that local knowledge.
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And how do we then adapt programming, education, and materials to fit that local community need?
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And so part of it is down to the housekeeper and the maintenance crews.
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We want to make sure that they're educated to understand what to look for because they become this powerful protective layer for the community.
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And so ultimately, it's about our shared responsibility and role.
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We're connecting travelers to these local homes or properties.
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So we have this shared responsibility to understand how to keep those neighborhoods safe and ethical.
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And we continue to share insights on human trafficking and those signs potentially of what to look forward.
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As a follow-up there, I know one of the things that I've been talking um a lot about with your team is kind of that again, you know, again, going to the differences between hotels and vacation rentals.
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And one of the challenges is with hotels, there is that line of sight to the guest almost every time they come to the front desk.
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And so we were having that discussion about like how to help managers be able to understand that one, this is important.
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I mean, I think that they they on the surface, they understand that.
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But it's like if they're not seeing the guests, that there are ways that they can still be proactive and be part of the solution.
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Um, so have you found any, I guess, any ways or any tips that have that you're using with vacation rental specifically knowing that they're not actually seeing the guest at check-in?
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Yeah, and I think that comes back to the point that I made around housekeepers and maintenance.
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And how are we ensuring that we're creating materials that are readily available but easy to understand?
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So part of some of the work that we've done is we've done events where we bring in hosts, we bring in property owners, where we walk them through what are some of the signs.
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How do they then share that with the individuals that are on the ground, meaning their cleaning crews, the individuals that potentially have conversations back and forth with their guests, whether it be online or in person at the time of check-in, depending on the check-in process.
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And so part of it is really adapting our approach to each need of the properties that we're working with.
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So I think one of the big things that we've learned is there's not a one size fits all, that we really have to look at both the materials and the way that we communicate to partners very uniquely different, especially for vacation rentals versus that of hotels and the mass scale that they can reach versus the individual renter, if you will, or traveler that's coming to a local home or a short-term rental.
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And so part of that is really understanding how to adapt and adjust our materials and overall communication.
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I think we're finding better ways to do that.
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I don't think that we have the magic yet.
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Um, but with this campaign that we've been working on, this is a new year for us, kicking off some of the best practices that we've learned from last year.
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And it's where I can see us slowly adapting and adjusting our approach.
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Got it.
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So it was interesting when Annie first brought this up to me, the idea for this episode.
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And I was on a work trip and uh was talking to somebody, and they said that I had I would never have thought this, that the Super Bowl is one of the most largest events for human trafficking.
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And I never really would have ever thought of that.
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But I mean, for for the people that you talk to or just our listeners, I mean, what are some of the signs that you educate to look for to know when something's not right?
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Yeah, I can take that one.
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So I think there's a couple of different um opportunities we have to really talk about the risks around human trafficking as a specific risk around major sporting events.
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Um and there's a couple of ways that we do that.
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And that's one of our partnerships with It's a Penalty is really critical in this way because they're they're really experts at bringing this larger community of awareness and then also making it hyper local, as Betsy was saying, is such a key.
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So I'll get to some of the signs, but I just wanted to know that one of the most important things that we can talk about with our partners is knowing what to do if you spot a sign or if you have even a hesitation that you might see something that looks unusual.
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And so it's a penalty, does this excellent work with local grassroots organizations and we paper every local community with billboard signs and signs on buses and any transport, taxis, um, bus stations, airports, videos in the backs of um on your airplane when you're traveling into a location so that people are just sort of able to see this information.
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So if you spot something that's unusual, you're out to dinner, or a cleaning crew comes in, and you see something a little weird with the people checking into the STR that's upstairs, for example, because you have a shared building, you know who to call, and you're calling a locally relevant and vetted organization.
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So that's the other side of the thing is once you know what to spot, what do you do with that information?
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And that's where it's a penalty, it's a valuable resource.
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Some of the things that you might look for are just certain guests that might not uh might have a little bit of signs of vulnerability.
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So for example, a guest who might check in, who isn't looking who might look scared or intimidated, or who might have other signs of vulnerability, who might not be completely in their own control.
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For example, they don't have control over their documents, or they don't have control over their luggage, or they might not have luggage, these kinds of things, which I think it's if you're moved into this space, you're a professional host, or you've hosted a couple times, you'll probably get a sense of what feels like maybe a little bit high risk or suspicious.
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And you can just always report that safely and securely and anonymously if need be, right?
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And not feel like you're gonna get anybody in trouble either.
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So there's also very victim-centered ways to handle this information.
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Um, other things can be when you come in and clean things that are just unusually dirty, messy, disturbed, um, certain kinds of paraphernalia that we might see.
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I don't want to get into a lot of like gory things.
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I think we can those things that seem a little bit out of place.
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And we we actually do in our trainings, we walk through the nitty-gritty and we we really get into specific signs that you might see.
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Um, and you just want to kind of gloss over it for the sake of this conversation given all the trigger warnings.
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Um, so there's a lot, and but it's being able to spot it, but then also being able to report it, I think is it's a really critical full circle campaign that we try to run.
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Um and we also work with other training organizations as well.
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So we have existing information both on our partner hub and articles, and we have some videos that we've put out um that you can also access through our platform and pointing to different resources for expert organizations, because of course we're not the anti-trafficking experts.
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We work with a lot of other groups who are trying to get their messages out and into the hands of our partners.
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Yeah, I know um over the last probably, I would say the last year, I feel like the more I've traveled that I've started to see more um no like just notices, like things on the back of bathroom walls.
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I mean, I I saw it for a while in some airports, but it feels like I see it all the time now.
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So that is both comforting that it's being acknowledged, but also disturbing that it has to be acknowledged at that level.
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I I was curious with your teams.
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I mean, is there training that's done with your teams?
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Obviously, I I think, you know, Betsy, for you, there's there, there's things that you're you're talking with partners about, but it just in the sense of like reservations being booked.
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And if somebody, you know, can they call and then there's like an escalation within the organization to react to things?
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Like, how does that happen if they're if something is noticed?
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Great question.
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I'll I'll take that one.
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:53.599
So part of our approach to general human rights risk management is looking at how can we as a platform also spot some of these risks sort of before they get to our partners.
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And that's a core part of what we are trying to do.
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And so indeed, we have our trust and safety team, is what we call it at booking.com.
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And they are really um running a lot of great programs, providing training to different teams inside the business.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:22.960
They themselves are trained up to really be able to spot those kinds of patterns and those kinds of bookings and be able to escalate it internally to do an assessment and understand, right, what are the appropriate actions that should they should take.
00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:25.599
They also do that when we receive reports in.
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.119
So that report can come in from another guest.
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:30.640
It can come in from a partner.
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:36.079
So one of those reporting channels is the partner can just call booking.com and it will be escalated to the right team.
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:42.079
And we will run an assessment and we will understand sort of within our own protocol what we can do about that.
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:49.119
So we run sort of a three-pillar program around anti-trafficking and human trafficking, and that's detection.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:21:02.720
So that work that we were talking about, being able to spot some of these reservations and some of these risky signs internally, then responding to that, making sure that the escalations are working, that our team knows what to do, and that we're getting those handled appropriately.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:21.920
And then really this awareness raising program, which is helping to make sure that our partners and our communities also understand what are these signs, what do they do with it, what should they do with it if they spot a sign, and how can they connect to us or to those grassroots communities and anti-trafficking centers that the It's a Penalty does such a good job of connecting them with.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:28.559
I was just gonna add on the team team level as well, there's extensive training that our teams are going through.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:47.440
So even before getting to the market and understanding kind of the local needs, our teams are also being trained by It's a Penalty as an example prior to this campaign going live and the focus for 2026 specifically around the World Cup.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:59.279
And part of what our teams are doing is ensuring that they have a clear understanding of what are some of the signs, how to have those conversations with property owners, with partners.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:09.440
More specifically, how to then answer questions around how do you get support and help from our internal teams, specific to what Jennifer was just referring to.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:20.960
So we really focus a lot on it's not just educating our partners and property owners, it's also about educating our teams, the local teams that are working with partners on a day-to-day basis.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:21.759
Gotcha.
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:28.640
And I mean, this has got to be just a massive library of content and education that you put together here.
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:37.599
So as far as how you're actually communicating these out to hosts and property managers, do you do webinars or is it articles or like what is the training?
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.559
Are there courses?
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:39.200
What does it look like?
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:40.559
Yeah, we do a mixture.
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:47.839
We have um a lot of digital content uh that we provide to our partners on our partner platform.
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:50.480
So very much self-service.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.920
Um, they can get and access information on their own.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:23:02.319
We also do very targeted um campaign learning um sessions with our teams and partners locally.
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.640
So we host multiple events.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:14.559
A great example of that is we've led several, what we refer to as Discover events in our local communities with partners and property owners invited.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:24.079
And we talk about it both at a how should you be thinking about this and communicating and educating your teams.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:30.799
Um, again, going back to the individuals that might be coming in and out of the home or the property.
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.720
But we also want to make sure that we answer any questions that they have.
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:41.039
Um, so we kind of look at it as a three-part there's digital and the ability to be self-service.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:46.720
There's very uh much that we have these discover-like events uh that we do in market.
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:56.319
And then we have targeted campaigns that we do specifically in communities, for example, where we know we're hosting uh the World Cup events.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:16.160
Uh, we may have very specific events or communications that we do, given that uh focus on a sporting event where we know that human trafficking um is at a larger scale during big events like the Super Bowl you had mentioned, but now the World Cup that's coming up in 2026.
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:20.000
Yeah, and I I can't imagine again, Super Bowl is very easy.
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:23.839
I say very easy, it's probably not easy, but it's one city, it's one location.
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:29.200
And this is, I mean, we're talking multiple locations just in North America, you know, or just in the US.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:31.839
And then you've got Canada and Mexico and that type of thing.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:42.720
And um, I was wondering if there was like before we wrap up, like any practical steps that property managers can take, you know, maybe if they're not working with you guys right now, but they want some information.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:46.160
And I think working with a partner that is acknowledging this is really important.
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:50.160
So I encourage everybody to use Booking.com because of things like this.
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.559
I think that because you're proactive on it, it's important.
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.319
Um, but are there some practical steps?
00:24:54.480 --> 00:25:03.119
Maybe I think Jennifer, you might have some things that a manager could like have implemented within their organization if they're not a partner and they don't have access to your training.
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:10.559
Yeah, um, I think most importantly is the first step is to just find that material and become aware.
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:15.119
Whether you're working with us or not, that information um is out there.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:16.720
You can access it.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:22.720
You can go to other organizations like protect all children from trafficking.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.079
So it's called PACT.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:33.039
They also offer wonderful resources and trainings that is sort of independent from any of the OTAs or booking platforms, right?
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:49.440
So before these major sporting events, or if you're thinking about listing and you're not sure, but everybody's coming to town, so you're gonna put your place up for the first time, maybe just really make sure that you're aware and you can have that information.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:54.000
And then those reporting channels, I would say, is the next one.
00:25:54.160 --> 00:26:00.960
Just have those um phone numbers on hand so that if you're and have make sure that your staff have them, right?
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:24.319
So if you do see something and you're just not sure, you know how to call, you know what to do, and you have that information just right there, whether it's up on the wall in your entryway or your foyer, if it's part of your welcome materials, if it's just something you hand out to your staff or you put in um any kind of you know information that you might give out to those that you work or collaborate with.
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:30.880
That would be my main two messages, is just get informed as early and as much as you can.
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:32.480
There's a lot of resources out there.
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:37.680
And then secondly, have those reporting numbers um on hand in case something does happen.
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.599
And we really hope that it doesn't, right?
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:55.039
We don't want to scare people, we want to help people feel empowered and ready, but also to enjoy, to host, to bring people into their communities, just like we always do when we're looking at major sporting events and travel and tourism in general.
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.160
Um, so that's just another thing that they can do to prepare and have a wonderful hosting opportunity.
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:04.160
Yeah, and I think it goes back to that thing that we hear every time we're traveling through an airport.
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:09.200
If you see something, say something, don't be afraid because there's organizations to help with that.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:10.960
Yeah, thank you both for coming on.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:13.119
I mean, this is a super important topic.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.920
And you know, we always ask guests that come on the show what's something that's not being talked about enough.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.319
And this topic has not come up, but it is definitely one of those that fall into the bucket.
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.839
So we're very grateful that you came to share the message with us today.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.799
If anybody wants to get in touch and learn more about this program, what's the best way for them to reach out?
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:39.920
I think definitely for those of individuals that are using booking.com, their account manager is absolutely the right pathway for them to connect.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:54.559
If not, um more than happy to share an email for some general information because I think there's a lot of great materials that we can share with our partners and our hosts uh that would be helpful for them in the future.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:56.799
We'll include that in our show notes.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:58.240
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:27:59.200
Thank you both.
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:00.240
Thank you so much.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:01.680
We'll be back in just a minute.
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:04.079
But first, a word from our premier brand sponsor.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:05.920
Hello, my name is Jesse Lear.
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.880
I'm a founder of Epicurean Furnished Departments here in Columbus, Ohio.
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:13.920
One of the things that makes our company unique is that we operate fully in the midterm rental space.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:20.640
So we cater a lot to medical travelers, executives who are relocating, families who are in the middle of large renovations, folks like that.
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.000
And we really strive to nail it when it comes to hospitality.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:25.119
That's our main goal.
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.680
We've been using Host Fully for about five years now.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.880
And we tried several other property management softwares before that.
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:44.480
And we really struggled to find one that would not only accommodate the uniqueness of our midterm rental business model, but also one that would be reliable and then come with a lot of the integrations that we needed with other softwares in order to automate what we were doing with a relatively lean team.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:50.799
Since we came on board with Host Fully, we've really grown as a company, not only in terms of size, but also in terms of sophistication.
00:28:50.880 --> 00:29:00.319
As we pivoted into the midterm rental space and started to build a reputation in our local community, with that came the need to really be more sophisticated on the back end with how our automations work.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:08.640
Because as a small company, we couldn't afford to hire 30 people right off the bat to take care of a lot of the tasks that needed to be done in order to deliver the type of service we were committed to.
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:17.839
So in order to do that, we really needed great software partners who could help us put our best foot forward and automate a lot of recurring tasks rather than hiring a bunch of employees.
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:21.920
And that's one of the things that Host Fully really helped us with and has helped us with as we've grown.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:29.440
One of the things that really made a difference for us and our partnership with Host Fully was when they started really working on the data analytics side of the software.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:36.480
And in other words, helping hosts really get a better grasp on what their metrics look like in terms of average daily rate, red part.
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.839
So it's not only saved us a lot of time, it's allowed us to run the business in a way that's been a little bit more organized.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.680
I think from the very beginning, the setup process was very smooth.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.119
And then as we've grown, they've made it clear that they're very open to feedback.
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:58.400
So there's actually a section of their website where users can log in and provide feedback and vote on certain changes and solutions, and they take them pretty seriously from what I've seen.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:03.680
So it's pretty important for us to be able to sort of flex their software to accommodate what we're trying to do.
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:11.279
The fact that they're willing to take feedback and add new features and tweak features to accommodate hosts like us is really one of my favorite parts of working with them.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:18.640
I recommend hostfully to people in my network all the time because I see it as the perfect blend of affordability, features, and reliability.
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.799
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Click the link in the description to get started today.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:37.279
And we're back.
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.680
We now have Philippa King, who is the deputy CEO of It's a Penalty.
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:44.000
Philippa, thank you for so much for joining us.
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.519
Thank you so much for inviting me.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:48.160
It's wonderful to meet you and be part of the conversation.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:48.640
Yeah.
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:53.920
The first part of our episode, we had talked to some folks from Booking.com and kind of took kind of the programs that they're doing.
00:30:54.160 --> 00:31:01.519
Specifically, it came up in conversation around the World Cup and sporting events, but it's a larger conversation that needs to be had about human trafficking.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:07.680
So why don't you give us a little bit of background on it's a penalty and kind of how it the origin story of the organization?
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:30.160
Yeah, so um our founder, Sarah, she um was running a charity to help street children in um Brazil, and she was looking after girls that had been abused and trafficked, um, had had multiple pregnancies, and she was having a conversation with this one young girl, um, Rose, and Rose's eyes were dead.
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:32.000
You know, she'd had so much trauma.
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:34.400
I think she was 13 or 14.
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:39.839
And Sarah just asked her and she said, you know, what can I do to help?
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.000
And Rose just looked at her and said, Tell other people about it.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:45.599
So it doesn't happen at all.
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:50.160
That's pretty much what we do still to this day.
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:51.759
It's evolved.
00:31:52.079 --> 00:32:02.000
But just after that, um, Sarah's coming back to the parliament government in England to a meeting about street children, and she was sharing the story.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:05.200
And this was actually just before the FIFA World Cup in Brazil.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:18.559
And police were there, and they said that if you told people, and particularly travellers that are going in, it might actually prevent people from you know exploiting others or becoming perpetrators.
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:20.880
And so that was how it started.
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:37.039
And so we work with the travel and tourism industry, we work with airline partners, hotels, um, and we tried to get all of the travel touch points as people go into a city so that they hear the messages all the time, and obviously to try to end it.
00:32:37.359 --> 00:33:01.440
So, yeah, so sort of we're coming full circle now with C4 World Cup, but we've done 23 campaigns in 12 countries, so the Olympics, Paralympics, we've just uh completed our ninth campaign around the Super Bowl in San Francisco, and you know, the more people that we can actually share and you know, folks that understand actually what it's like because there are so many myths around human trafficking.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:06.559
You know, often people think that you know young girls are kidnapped from one space to another.
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:08.720
You know, that is not the case.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:13.759
Um, and particularly in America, actually, you know, most of the victims will be US citizens.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.920
Um so yeah, so we use sporting events.
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:26.000
I mean, they're an amazing platform to get you know to reach millions and millions of people each campaign that we do.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:39.119
And for each sporting event, we will use we have campaign ambassadors, so they will be you know famous uh sports players within you know that event, so NFL players, soccer players.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:46.079
And what's really good about that is that they become real advocates and they're role models as well.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:52.960
And so it means lots of people take uh notice and attention to the campaign messages.
00:33:53.440 --> 00:34:02.240
Yeah, so so you know, we raise awareness and it's really important that we work in partnership with industry, with local communities, with local NGOs.
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:09.599
So it's a whole system that you know we make sure that each campaign is contextualized to the host city as well.
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:27.840
Yeah, and we were just talking to um Jennifer and Betsy, and you know, we were talking about how these events there what you're saying is that you use them as as the springboard, that there's so much visibility that you're pushing the message out to them, but that human trafficking happens a lot at these events.
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:34.800
And I guess maybe just from like an educational standpoint, because I didn't know a whole lot about this until just recently.
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.559
But like what happens?
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:40.079
You know, I mean, like not just what are you looking for, but like what is going on?
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.119
Like, what is the most common type of human trafficking that you're trying to prevent?
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:51.440
I think particularly uh yeah, around major sporting events is too sexual exploitation.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:35:07.519
So when we work on our campaigns, we work a lot with survivor leaders, and you know, we've heard stories and they've shared stories about you know how they have been trafficked for sexual exploitation at major sporting events and gone from one you know main event to another.
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:11.039
But also a big part of it is the labour trafficking as well.
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:27.280
So there's a big demand in sort of like low-cost um labour, so street vendors, or even you know, in the hospitality industry, you know, if you've got management companies hiring cleaners, that can be quite a high-risk area as well.
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:38.719
I think it's quite uh well known in Qatar, there's quite a lot of um labour exploitation in terms of um the building of the infrastructure of all of the different stadiums.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:50.880
And then you've also got domestic servitude, so that will be people that are working for families, you know, often they'll have their documentation taken away from them, they won't be paid.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.480
So there's many forms of human trafficking.
00:35:54.719 --> 00:36:04.079
But again, I think people have this perception that you need to be taken from one place to another, but it can actually happen within your own community in your own town.
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:16.000
It's it's around if people are forced to do something or coerced, and particularly exactly, and particularly for under-18s, you know, any sexual exploitation.
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.480
I mean, that that is counted as human trafficking.
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.079
So out of curiosity, there was some stories.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:31.039
Um, oh gosh, I want to say it's in the last couple of years, but there was a trafficking ring, I guess they would call it, in Florida.
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:39.039
And when they got into kind of the people that were doing it, it was people that you wouldn't expect that were actually part of it.
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:41.599
Law enforcement would be the last people I would think of.
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:48.880
And maybe that's why they're they they get away with it for the length of time that they do, is because law enforcement, the ones that have been caught, I would say.
00:36:48.960 --> 00:37:00.159
Um, but is there like a a typical type of individual or group of people or business that is involved in this, or is it just really span all segments?
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:08.400
It's very difficult to answer that because I mean it's the crime is so insidious, and I think it cuts across all different demographics.
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:30.880
Um, you know, you've you've obviously got the Epstein case, which is very live at the moment, but you know, there's lots of intersection with drug trafficking, so they will use individuals to sell the drugs and they will exploit them, and you know, they'll they'll get them into drug debt and then they'll start you know sexually exploiting them and grooming them in that way.
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:43.360
Um, you know, the cartels, I mean it's it's it's across it's across the board, and unfortunately, you know, it's it's growing, it's the second largest criminal industry in the world.
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:54.880
Um it's yeah, it's estimated that a$236 billion of profit is made from exploitation per year.
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:57.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:02.239
And globally there's about 50 million people that are victims.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:06.960
Um 24 million of those will be labour or sexual exploitation.
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:16.960
Um and yeah, I mean it's it's global, it's in every community, it's in every city, it's rural, it's um yeah, it's endemic.
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:35.920
And I think uh, you know, what's really important for us as an organization is to really get people to understand actually how hidden it is in plain sight, and actually to, you know, there are certain behaviours that that may indicate that trafficking's happening.
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:42.079
Um, and I think that you know, for the general public or people, it's just like, you know, trust your gut, trust your instinct.
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:53.119
And if you think something is a little bit awry, then maybe call the national hotline number or your local hotline number, you know, get advice um around it.
00:38:53.280 --> 00:39:02.079
Um so yeah, that's that's what what we do with the campaigns and with our partners like Booking.com, Airbnb, IHT, American Airlines.
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:04.000
Yeah, I guess that's the very hard part about it.
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.000
It's like it's not it's not just one thing.
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:11.840
It could be, I mean, it's a it's a whole category of a lot of bad stuff and a lot of bad people doing bad things.
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:16.400
So um hard to even have a manual or a training on what to look for.
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:18.159
Yeah, no, exactly.
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:20.559
I mean, but there are there are some things.
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.639
So I think particularly, you know, in vacation rentals and things.
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:36.719
Um, well, actually, there was a case in Texas, Texas in Plano recently, and it was a rental accommodation, it was in a suburban area, quiet street, there was a school close by.
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:45.519
But actually, um, one of the neighbors noticed that there were lots of men going in and out throughout the day, and he saw that on dog walks.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.840
And so he thought, this is really odd.
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:58.239
And so he called the police, and actually, the police went in, the law enforcement went in, and 12 people ended up being prosecuted, they're arrested and prosecuted successfully for trafficking.
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:03.599
So I think again, you know, with vacation rentals, I mean, uh the majority are really good.
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.360
You know, it's you're part of the community and it's a really lovely service.
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:18.320
But, you know, for for owners or the community around it, just to understand, you know, some of the patterns and behaviors around trafficking, you know, you could be the eyes and ears.
00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:23.360
And actually, you know, you don't have to be professional, uh, you know, to know.
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:30.079
It's it's just under having some understanding and and concern, and if you are concerned to make those calls.
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:40.239
Yeah, on and um when we talked to the the ladies from Booking.com, it was um kind of going back to like what you always hear when you're at the airport that see if you see something, say something like don't be afraid.
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:48.960
But I was curious from you know, looking at through the lens of like the World Cup again, trying to mobilize in multiple cities, what is the approach?
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:55.760
Is it is it to just get the education out there, or will you actually have teams in each one of these markets as the events unfold?
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.239
Yeah, so we work, it's really important for us to work with local partners.
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:10.719
So to give you an example, so in Miami, um, we're working with the state attorney's office, so they run the um human trafficking coalition there.
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:13.679
We work with local NGOs on the ground.
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.280
So, you know, they will be doing outreach into communities as well.
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:25.760
There will be events as people fly into to Miami, you know, they'll see a 30-second PSA on the foot on the plane at the airport.
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:29.280
There'll be signage, it will be on public transportation.
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:47.360
So it's a whole ecosystem that comes together, you know, and that we work and convene um with others um to raise awareness and and to make sure that you know the partners that are doing frontline services and care are signposted and people know where to get help.
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:51.599
And oftentimes people don't even realise they're being trafficked either.
00:41:52.320 --> 00:42:10.000
So yeah, because you know they're very vulnerable individuals often that are groomed for you know being exploited, and sometimes they can think, oh well, you know, I'm part of a group or something, and then it gets worse and worse, and then the exploitation ramps up.
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:18.960
And you know, often oftentimes I think it's language matters, and it's just like, you know, are you feeling threatened in your work?
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:21.440
You know, do you feel unsafe?
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:27.599
And you know, sometimes they don't even sort of join the dots and realize that they're being trafficked themselves.
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:32.320
So as part of the campaign, we also sort of you know speak to potential victims as well.
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:40.559
So it's it's also if you think that you've seen something about somebody else, but also is it could that be happening to you too?
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:41.199
Mm-hmm.
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:51.519
Yeah, that was actually one of my questions was are you educating the general public that they could end up in this situation of what happens if you are being human traffic trafficked?
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:52.960
Like, how do you get help?
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:57.599
And how do you do that in a way that um you know you're gonna be scared to try and go away?
00:42:57.679 --> 00:42:59.039
But like, uh what do you do?
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:02.880
And I'm sure every situation is different, but is that part of your education as well?
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:03.840
Yeah, absolutely.
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.800
And I think it was um again, Miami.
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:18.719
But uh the Super Bowl there, um, one of the survivors that we work with, she said that if she'd seen our films when she was being groomed, she would have understood and not got herself into that trafficking situation.
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:22.320
And and again, you know, traffickers are so clever.
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:36.880
You know, when we were working with some survivors in um New Orleans, you know, she was sharing about how, you know, he actually used to use um hotel properties, economy hotel properties to f you know, as a place for her to be abused.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:45.840
But he was so charming and so gregarious to the hotel staff, you know, and sort of masked at you know what was happening.
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:48.880
So it really does happen in in plain sight.
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:59.760
But you know, there there are there are patterns, there are tools, and also even if you make a call or a tip and it's not you know attractive.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:03.440
Situation or an exploitation situation, that doesn't matter.
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:16.000
You know, you I think, you know, one of the things I say to the general public is, you know, you don't want to pro we don't want to profile people, but you know, your gut instinct is often, you know, wrong.
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.320
Yeah, that's a really good point.
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:27.679
Well, what you guys are doing for just the greater good of humanity is incredible and something that you know needs to be more more obvious.
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:34.639
And as you're talking about things, it it's hitting me now, all the places that I do see these campaigns and bathrooms and airports.
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:47.360
And uh it's just it's a really it's a really important thing, and it needs to be more prevalent in all conversations, not just related to vacation rentals or travel of what we do, but uh everywhere to make people aware of it.
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:48.320
Absolutely.
00:44:48.480 --> 00:45:00.159
And I I would also say that if if you know it it's an unsafe situation, do not intervene yourselves if you think that something is suspect or you're concerned, make the call.
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:05.519
And also if if it's a dangerous situation, you know, call your emergency services immediately.
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.039
Don't don't intervene.
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:12.880
We want people to be concerned citizens, and as I say, you know, save the number or share about a myth.
00:45:13.119 --> 00:45:27.199
If any managers or anybody listening to our show wants more information or maybe wants to engage with either your organization or others to be able to educate their staff and maybe train their staff, what is the best way to gather that information?
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.079
Is it to reach out to you guys or what's the best way?
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:31.199
Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:35.519
I mean, you know, go to our website www.itzapenalty.org.
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:37.840
There's loads of resources on there as well.
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:54.559
And I I think again, going back to sort of, you know, for property owners and neighbours, some of the sort of like site uh indicators that could potentially, you know, indicate that something's wrong is you know, uh frequent visitors, as I shared about a case in in Texas.
00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:02.159
Um, if people go with minimal belongings, you know, if there's no luggage and that that could be an indicator as well.
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:12.480
Also, if some appears as though somebody's controlling somebody else and there's sort of like minimal interaction from one person, that that could also be an indicator.
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:19.039
And again, suspicious payments of people using cryptocurrency, are they using prepaid bank cards?
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:21.760
Though those are things to sort of be alert to.
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:26.800
But, you know, as I say, you know, vacation rentals, you know, I don't want to sort of like scare people.
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.960
The majority is absolutely fine.
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:30.239
But yeah.
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:36.400
Yeah, and I think it's it's it's just, you know, we were talking with the ladies, the challenge is it's a different environment.
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.599
So you're looking for different, you know, you your touch points are different.
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:56.559
And so it is, it is really about having a holistic approach to it and like educating all touch points within the stay, um, you know, whether it be the the people taking the reservation who notice that maybe this card isn't seemingly matching up or somebody who's going by the property doing maintenance, those type of things.
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:57.599
I think that's really important.
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:00.880
And we'll include some of this information in our show notes.
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:12.320
Um, but is there anything specific to maybe the World Cup, since that is the big event that's that's going to be happening here in a few months that people should be um mindful of in terms of this conversation?
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:23.599
I think, you know, it's a great opportunity with you know the the thousands of visitors that are going into each city to get the awareness and the prevention uh messages out there.
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:26.960
I mean, the World Cup is across three countries, 16 cities.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:33.199
So for us it's an amazing opportunity for the campaign to reach many, many people.
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:42.880
Um, I think one of the areas that I think all of us in the space are really concerned about is around the labour trafficking.
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:49.679
Um, because there's going to be such a huge demand for unskilled labour, low-paid labour.
00:47:49.920 --> 00:48:05.840
Um, so you know, as I said, it's street vendors, or if and again, I think if you are managing the property, maybe do some checks of of asking, you know, your your cleaners how you're getting your cleaners, do some, you know, due diligence tech checks around that.
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.159
That that could be really helpful as well.
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:10.639
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:14.000
Well, Philippa, it's such a pleasure to meet you today.
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:20.000
And hopefully we'll get to talk to you and meet you in in person and get to talk about some maybe happier topics.
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:21.840
But um, we appreciate you coming on.
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:27.679
Um, and if anybody wants to learn more about your program, what's the best way for them to get in touch?
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:33.280
Yeah, again, just go to the website www.itzapenalty.org.
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:38.880
Um, and then we will be launching the campaign in May across all the cities.
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:41.599
So um look out for all of those messages.
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:56.559
And I would say, yeah, save the number, the hotline number, and and share, you know, what you've learned from campaigns or unpack the myths or have that conversation and particularly if you've you know speak to your neighbours if you're renting out a vacation property.
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:02.159
Um, because that you're there are the eyes and ears in the community, aren't they?
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:14.480
And it doesn't take experts, you know, to to be the only ones that, you know, or law enforcement can help, you know, it's a it's a whole system and community.
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:16.239
Yeah, it takes a village.
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:18.639
I was shooting the words out of my mouth.
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:22.239
It's a true village, yeah.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:24.480
Well, Philip, yeah, Philip, I thank you so much.
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:32.000
Again, a very important topic, and we appreciate you coming on and it keep us posted on anything that we can do to to kind of keep the message going.
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:38.559
I think this is something that it hasn't been talked about enough and certainly hasn't been talked about enough in vacation rentals.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:41.760
So anyway we can put a spotlight on it, we're happy to do so.
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:42.800
Thank you so much.
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.079
Really appreciate your time.
00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:44.800
Thank you.
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:45.599
Awesome.
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:50.880
Well, if anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to alexandi podcast.com.
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:53.920
But until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody.
