From One Swiss Chalet to a Global Luxury Portfolio with Moriya Rockman of Smiling House Luxury

Alex Husner  0:36  
Annie, welcome to Alex & Anni: The Real Women of Vacation Rentals. I'm Alex and I'm Annie, and we are with Moriya Rockman, who is the founder of the smiling house group, Mariah, so good to see you again.

Moriya Rockman  0:47  
Great to see you, ladies, finally.

Annie Holcombe  0:49  
Nice to connect with you after getting to finally meet you in person when we were in Italy this year, that was just such a treat. I feel like I've known you and talked to you well through clubhouse. So I mean, we go back way to that to clubhouse, but seeing you in person was was a delight, and it was wonderful to hear about your journey. But before we get started, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about that journey that you've had, which has been really nothing sort of extraordinary in my mind, to get to smiling house and what you've built up with your with your husband?

Moriya Rockman  1:18  
Well, it's quite a journey. Started almost a decade ago. Started as a homeowner of a Swiss chalet, 400 years old. I knew nothing about vacation rentals, not that I'm part of any industry. It was started as a completely as a hobby. A friend came from New York, and she stayed at my place, and she told me, why don't you put it on Airbnb? And I said, What is Airbnb? She happened to knew about it. To know about it, because she came from New York that that time with her encouragement and guidance, when Airbnb was just a website, still, we joined and opened our first listing that was probably one of the first listings in Europe. It was about 11 years ago. Since then, so many things have happened. So we grew from being homeowner been exposed to the possibilities and to the industry of vacation rental. Grew up our inventory quite fast in the luxury vacation rental, since our property was and still is in the Swiss Alps, next to kstad, quite a famous ski resort here in the in the Swiss Alps. And then the continuing of the road was meeting branches key and the rest of the founders of Airbnb encouraged to open and dare to host in other destination, other countries, other continents. One tip I got at the time is that luxury is the one thing that can be expected. Doesn't matter where you are when you're looking at luxury hospitality, and that's why it makes it easy or makes sense, to be involved in hosting globally. And this is exactly what happened. We grew up globally, and today we are with 17,000 luxury properties in Villa trekker, our B to B channel, and about 13,000 things, mining house. So quite a journey.

Alex Husner  3:25  
That's great. I think the first time that I started talking to you, it probably was during covid, I guess. But there was something similar about what you were doing and still are doing that to what I used to do. Of you kind of are that operate in that hybrid space that you manage properties, but then you also book for other properties. And I think that's something that a lot of people in theory, they want to do, something like that, but it's not necessarily the easiest approach to tackle from a technology standpoint, from getting the inventory, but I'm curious. I mean, how have you gone about getting all those 1000s of listings? I mean, how is that? Have you gotten that big?

Moriya Rockman  4:03  
Yeah, so first of all, it was not overnight, and this is the one thing I want to to explain, but it doesn't. It doesn't mean that it's not reachable or possible. I'll go back to our property management here in igstad in Switzerland, we grew gradually from one year to another. Our collection, which today is about 140 homes that has been very, very selective, of course, and we stayed and kept on managing the collection for one reason only, and that reason is to be in the always, always connected to the to the hospitality journey, to the guest, to meet them and to keep on being a host ourselves, the technology journey, it's completely different. Journey around covid time, we realized already, by then, we had already a collection of a few 1000s properties across different countries. But that was the moment that I decided not to have only a portfolio, you know, of beautiful homes that everybody would like to put on Instagram and visit one day, but also to get into the real hardcore of technology and vacation rental, as everybody knows, the space where we are in is so full of technology and solutions and companies and startups and so on. So it was difficult, but I'm not regretting it, because it's allowing homeowners and property managers from all around the world to join our journey of smiling house, which is the journey of being part of real Luxury Collection and also services for people who could afford to stay in the most beautiful place on in the world, actually, and to be and to be getting the top of hospitality journey that can be given from amazing hosts and homeowners All around the globe, the part of the vacation rental here in stag like the property management is always difficult, like any journey of anyone that is a host, but we're not giving it up to stay always humble, to understand the pain of every one, Every host that we have and and to be connected to the guest, very cool.

Alex Husner  6:45  
And you had an amazing analogy at the European vacation rental women's conference that we were all just at last month and talking about your new venture, and maybe tell us a little bit about that.

Moriya Rockman  6:57  
So yeah, so I mentioned and maybe something that not everybody knows. I'm a mother of seven kids, and I founded smiling house group with my husband IRA, working together. It's a journey by itself and with all our kids around us and travel the world. And when I stopped giving birth to babies, as I started to feel like something is missing and and this is how later Villa tracker, our last company, or the newborn, joined the family. And Villa tracker is the first channel in vacation rental. As far as I know, that is a real B to B to C means that the one who book the properties, the one who's asking about the vacation and want to state your property as a host, is actually not the guest itself, but the people on behalf of the guest. It can be concierge companies and travel designers and travel agent and and maybe Secretary of high executive in a company or family office, or anybody else that is actually planning a trip on behalf of somebody else and these kind of professionals, they were looking for over a decade to be able to speak with us as an industry, as vacation rental host, but there was no platform. And when I realized it, I decided to take on the mission to build this bridge between the two industries. And right now it's working just amazingly. There's so much appreciation on the other side. There's so much curiosity. We handling the request on Marrakech next to Ibiza, next to Majeed, next to Costa Rica in the same day, and they all coming from different professionals who are designing trips of families and individuals from different parts of the world. And it's exciting to create a piece of technology that will make things possible where everybody else kind of all neglect it or say it's never going to work, out

Annie Holcombe  9:13  
of curiosity. So does Villa tracker? Can you connect into the GDS system? So in the US, I mean, it's obviously where a lot of corporate travel agents go to book travel, but I know that you're working with more luxury and high end travel planners. And I actually, interestingly enough, there was several people that I worked with in my Expedia days that have since gone on, and they're actually doing some of this bespoke travel planning for very high end people all around the world. But I was curious, is Villa tracker going to be connected to other platforms for people to be able to access, or is it just totally they come directly to Villa tracker?

Moriya Rockman  9:49  
Villa tracker is a GDS, and that's the unique part of it. So the travel agencies and concierge companies when they are logging into villa. Record, they actually finding all our inventory of 17,000 listings accessible to them under their label, with a way for them to communicate directly with their guests and with commission that we're granting from for them so they don't need to upsell and to and to fight for it. It's like a world of opportunities, and for them, it's equivalent to 17,000 hotels that is suddenly from one day to another, welcome to work with. And that's I, you know, I cannot even share with you the excitement and the and the happiness that people are showing when they finally discovering that there is such thing, because, as you know, the biggest GDSs are not offering this kind of opportunity, and they're focusing mainly on hotels. I believe it will change. I believe Phil electron won't stay for long alone in the space of the B to B to C, but I can assure you that the fact that we are kind of the first one there, and the way that we're learning and adding on to this piece of technology, all kinds of things that they are interested in making us also understand how beautiful and much, much larger are the pools that we can all enjoy. So I want to say to every host that listen to this that there's so much more opportunities we were not exposed to until today, just because we've been all busy on the OTAs the B to C only. So there's so many vacations that been planned completely not taking us in account and for very clear reason that we could not be on the itinerary. We couldn't be in the offer, because the one who took the decision always went into the Marriott, into the Hilton, because it was easy for them to plan it this way. But they excited. And to be honest, after covid, a lot of them got this knocking on the door from their clientele, saying, I want private amenities. I want this private villa. I want to be alone. I want to stay longer. I want to be with my my children and my family under the same roof in a big house for three generation gathering. And sometimes I want to be that executive. We have to jump from one place to another for weeks, and I'm tired of being in the hotel lobby. I want to be in a decent place where I can still create and welcome maybe some of my teamwork. But as for your question, Annie, we are not focusing on corporates for now, we are really focusing on the on the level of the 2030, $40,000 that is part of a trip that people that can afford it going to but with a big change that coming, that with US, with Villa tracker is already a channel, an official channel, that anyone can connect to via guesting. Now, with rentals united and booking pal, we will encourage hosts from anywhere in the world to push properties that are also in city center up to $5,000 a week, to open even more opportunities within the travel professional world than asking for this kind of ticket, which today, we are a little bit higher than that.

Alex Husner  13:30  
Yeah, I love that, and I think it's really it's an untapped part of the industry that I've had many conversations with people about this, that you know, especially when you're traveling abroad, travel agents are still a very viable source of, you know, you want to make sure you're the plans are in line. I know, when we went to Italy last year, we used travel agent that I had used over a decade ago for my honeymoon, I think, and the way that she put everything together, it just it made the trip so seamless. And it's like, you know, if you're going to go and do a big vacation like this. It's just nice to know that you have somebody that also has, you know, vetted to a certain extent, the accommodations that it's going to be nice. We showed up in one accommodation last year over there. That was not nice. So I mean that that happens, but it's it's a risk you don't want to take when that's a big investment to go do a trip like this. So I think it's great what you're doing. And how are you getting in front of those travel agencies? I'm sure, is there, like, a B to B network on that side too? Like, do you go to conferences for the travel professionals?

Moriya Rockman  14:33  
Sure. So I just showed you before. I promised to send some to you. So we just prepared this, this chocolate bars handmade by chocolate here around for Villa tracker, because we going to be in or on the red carpet, the famous red carpet in Cannes two weeks from now, in one of the biggest, biggest conventions called. Iotm that in order to be accepted to this conference, it's not really conference. It's actually one on one meeting like Tinder meetings, just with the best buyers of travel in the world. We had to wait a few years to be there, not as a villa provider, but as a an official channel only that, only provide access to travel professionals to be offered as GDS, and the moment that they accepted us, we limited for 40 meetings. We had a 120 meetings requests, and of course, we cannot fill it, even our all our lunch and all our dinners been turned into meetings with really interesting people. So if you want to know, like names that are interested working with our industry, so count American Express, and count any other credit card holder, and mind people who managing the budget for VIPs, people, politician or any other people, but also people who just designing, for example, weddings. So do you know there's a huge demand for properties, for just having gathering and wedding, for completely normal people like ourselves that just want to dedicate their beautiful day with certain amount of not too many people in a magical destination. And while Airbnb and I think booking.com I'm not quite sure. I believe that most of the OTAs say no, no, no, no parties allowed. Villa tracker is giving the homeowners and the property managers the possibility to tag their homes as event places for movie making, a great places for sustainability, values and other searches that these professionals are actually searching and offering, on on on our behalf, even if most of our world and industry of Ota is not really sensitive to to this, and we see great success and also significant tickets like I think I told you that I'm very, very proud that we were holding still in the last few months, significant or unheard tickets for hospitality 400,800 1000, which is like, who is the people, or who are the people that booking such vacation? And what are they eating for breakfast? Are they eating chocolate bars or gold bars or What? What? How they spending their time. So it's interesting to get to know these people, but of course, I can tell and assure to each one of you that even if you have a two bedroom, nice property in London or in Paris or in New York or wherever, these travel professionals will be eager to get to know because they have different clients on their end, and they are companies where we can create a relationship with and that's maybe one of the biggest differences between the B to C and the B to B. There's a relation base company to company. We can address markets and destination they're interested in. We can hear their pain or things that they would like us to develop on their behalf, and we can fix and bring and build this bridge to be stable and wide, and that will have everything that needs for both sides, both industries, to enjoy each

Annie Holcombe  18:57  
other talking about acquiring properties and acquiring listings. Are you working solely with property managers, or do you have individual hosts? And I asked that I was actually on a call with somebody yesterday. We were talking about the makeup of the industry in the US, and like 80% of it is still people that have less than five units, and so that's just a ginormous segment of to go after. So are you looking to work with both property managers, like professional property managers, and individual hosts that maybe have one, you know, they have a castle, or they have a very large, you know, 10 bedroom home and a destination. I'm thinking you were mentioning the weddings that that is very prevalent in in the market that I live in the panhandle of Florida, that people will come in here and they'll rent them out for bachelorette parties, which is one thing, but then they do rent them out for weddings, and I know that happens in the Carolina coast, where Alex is at as well. So what? How do you go about acquiring these properties and getting in front of the people that have them?

Moriya Rockman  19:51  
So I want to say that we are welcoming any size of property and any amount of properties, and the one we like. The most is what we call the golden the golden list is the homeowners who own themselves a unique property. It can be unique in any ways. It can be unique in its position or in its the way that it's been designed, or just very authentic and and suitable to our criteria. So we have a dedicated team in Villa tracker that doing this journey on behalf of homeowners so they do not need even to have a PMS, we will upload the property on their behalf. We will tag it so it will be to the eyes of everyone that needs to see it the different kind of section of travel professionals, if it's need to be highlighted under sustainable or event planning and or anything else that we need to highlight in the amenities, it can be the house that they even living in or using, Because we can show this house availability for certain dates in the year, and it could still be very, very interesting for them to rent it and to see who are the people that will like to enjoy their property. Of course, we want, and we expecting to stand the highest level hospitality on the other side when we sending this kind of people, especially that we are recommending it to a third party. But the The truth is, and that's what I learned very, very long time ago in the industry, that luxury is some kind of a standard, that it doesn't matter where you are. You can be in Norway and you can be in Marrakesh, you can be in Ibiza, and you can be in Rome. When you say luxury, the the kind of luxury we're looking at, people know what to expect, and people know what they will get. And as long as this rule is kept, and we're doing a due diligence for each one of the properties, interviewing the homeowner or the property manager learning about the collection and realizing from the different amenities the standardization of that host, then it's fine. Then we can, we can be the ambassadors, pushing and recommending it. So for your question, any anyone can reach out to us. There's a villa tracker.com with one link, say, Join us as a homeowner and or join us as a property manager, and our dedicated uploader team will be in touch with you. They will open the property on your behalf. Will be in in touch with you, also on bookings request or anything else. So like I said till today, we are only on request to book format, but we're opening ourselves now for instant book, especially through the OTA connection that we're getting from guest rentals united and booking pal as a channel.

Alex Husner  22:59  
I love that. We'll be back in just a minute. But first a word from our premier brand sponsor.

Speaker 3  23:03  
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Alex Husner  25:36  
looking at the luxury segment and your travel in the markets that you're in overall, what takeaways Do you have from this year? I know, you know, everybody in the States has kind of had a little bit of a struggle, and there's a lot of conversation of you know, does does luxury still happen? Does that travel still happen, regardless of the economy? I mean, what, what have you seen since you represent such a vast portfolio?

Moriya Rockman  25:57  
Sadly, whenever most of the people are complaining about the economy. Some people are traveling even more. But I can see a trend, or even a growing trend, towards luxury accommodation and bookings on few reasons, and let me count them. First of all, the house, the villa, the chalet or the castle or the ad they got different names for these private homes, or even just a beautiful loft like in the city center, can be luxurious, but the people who books it don't have to be so so rich, because it's all about How, how many household and how you, you know, kind of dividing it, because many of the big houses are actually working the other way around. The house is big allow more people to stay, and becoming much more competitive to hotels with the amount of rooms that people will need to to add together in order to be in one place. That's one trend that we see. So we see bigger groups booking luxury properties. The groups are made out of three generation or just groups of friends that are completely me and you. Then the other thing that we see is that, thanks to technology, AI and of course, everything else that we have right here with this box that we all have, people are daring to travel more friends together, girls that would never dare to travel without their husbands, or people from other countries that will will never dare To travel without their guide, will go and explore our properties and and this is in high demand. And the last thing is that the luxury segment was the last one to join, actually, the industry of STR so there's, like, still a hype over there, and people are eager to stay in amazing properties they could not even dream of, and to learn that it's so accessible. It just came back three days ago from Scotland and over there, you know, I stayed in a retreat that been put together for some kind of industry, leaders of vacation rental industry two years ago, and I went to visit it again. I'm talking about crazy Castle, crazy like the one that we see in Outlander. But if you compare the cost of staying there is cheaper than two bedrooms of Luxury Hotel in London, so suddenly you can sleep 18 people in unbelievable castle for yourself, with all this historic feeling and vibe and all kind of add on experience that you could add to such a private property and cost effective. It's like, whoa. Very cost effective. So, so. So I think that people are still very much discovering the space, and this is the space led by any data science in in the industry, also showing that it has the most capability and growth expected. So welcome you, wherever you are, to join this space. And yeah, we're

Annie Holcombe  29:24  
supposed to go to Barcelona for the Women's Conference in the scale event next fall. So like we'll need to look for some really wonderful property to stay at while we're there, because it is a bunch of girls. And to your point, we the trip that we just did to Italy, it ended up being all girls. And it was one that I had never done anything like that before, you know, a weekend away, that kind of thing. But this was, like a full on, you know, crazy trip. Did the train, planes, trains and automobiles. And it was so fun, and we learned so much about each other, and just experienced the world. And like, a whole different, I think, in a whole different way. I mean, well, once you know, there was, there was pro. GUEST and train stoppages, but overall, it was just, it was such a great experience. And I would do it again in a heartbeat with the girls that I went with. I mean, Alex was one of them, but we just, we'd had such a great time. And it just, it was, it was a whole different experience just being like that. But I think had we been able to stay in one place, that would have been a lot of fun as well. But I was curious in terms of, you know, you were talking about the number of villas that you have, and kind of all these different destinations. Are you seeing any like emerging destinations that people are wanting to go to, that you need inventory at that maybe if our listeners have have that inventory, they could reach out to you.

Moriya Rockman  30:33  
So I actually it's a great question, and I'm so happy that you asked it, because one of the things that I just decided to develop in Villa, Tracker is a voice for the travel agent to to say what they do not find and what they want as a desired destination on behalf of their clients. And I can see, by the by the way, that they asking is it is not necessarily what we had so first of all, our collection originally was in leisure, destination only summer or winter focus, destination that mainly mainly been working about 120 days in a year. I know that for many people listening to it to us now thinking like, How can you even make a business with such a little part of the year as the frame? I'm not talking about 100% booking in 120 days. So yes, there's a place there, and some properties are only booked for one or two weeks, still making the homeowners and the property managers super happy. The emerging destination that we can see now is actually some that are in city center, such as Dubai, London, Paris, Miami, we see requests for kind of winter destination that we were not so involved in more in the Scandinavian towards, you know, Santa Claus, looking for Santa Claus up there. Of course, we also see the request for for the one that will always be kind of in a trend like Mykonos and Ibiza and Aspen and but we see also Costa Rica rising. We see Paris and anti Paris. So actually, we can even give some kind of a measurement of the next destination that been requested by high net worth individuals. And because of this, we've just been approached by a data company that actually forecasting for real estate investment, which is interesting, because these people are often early adapters, creating some kind of community and discovering places. And after them, the market is like coming over and start to look into this destination, etc, etc. And after five, 710, years time, this destination prices, of course, of real estate is booming. So we believe that everywhere there's beautiful destination, it will get a request, because people like to travel, and they like to discover something new, like we had a great big request to hold Riyadh. Riyadh, you know what it is? It's like a villa in Morocco, the authentic one in the middle of the Medina, in the middle of the souk. And people want to go to get this kind of authentic experience. For them, it's luxury. Got to

Annie Holcombe  33:40  
be fun. Got to be fun. So I would volunteer Alex and I to go check out destinations. If, yeah, we'd be happy to do that. Yeah, do you get to do that yourself? Like, do you have certain properties that maybe are so unique that you want to go check them out for yourself, just to make sure that it's one? Yeah? For sure.

Moriya Rockman  33:59  
Yeah. Okay. But I cannot check all of them myself, and I got a lot of invitation, so maybe you can do some on my behalf, if you want, because it's the invitation coming from all over the world, and it's, it's really wonderful. Yeah, I'm serious about it. But I had a big, big luck to stay in some of our properties. Just came back from a property like that in Greece about 10 days ago. I've been just like in so many places where we did also our olive oil, and I have a crisis story to share with you. So we rented this villa kind of out, kind of out of the season, and because they've been part of our collection, they gave it to us in a great price, which I admitted I won't be able to afford otherwise. And I invited some friends and all my kids, not all five from the seven, and we were focusing on going next door and harvesting our. 35 olives, olive trees to make our yearly pressing of olives already. Yeah, how cool. It was so cool. But when we arrived to the to the spot, to the island of Crete area of Chania, and we checked into this unbelievable Villa that was surrounded with sea from like three angles. I felt like I'm in a boat or an island, you know, island within the island, and with a private beach and we could swim to the next bay. It was just magical. I found, as much as I enjoyed it with my with my kids and my friends, that my trees were kind of empty. So we had a whole expedition, a whole party planned, a DJ that been invited to the villa to celebrate the end of the harvesting, and there was no, or barely No, olives. And I asked myself, What can I do? And believe it or not, in the villa itself, there were like 20 olive trees full of olives. So I called the property manager and said, I know it's a very, very odd request. Can I, by any chance, harvest your trees and I'll give you the oil, because we just want to have the experience. And he said, Of course not. It belongs to the owner. Said, Please, please. We came from far, and we are. We have all the manpower and all the initiative. And in the end, he said, Yes, and we actually harvest the olive trees in bathing suit in infinite next to infinity pool, going to swim in the private beach, coming back, finishing our work. And we ended up going to the factory and coming back with, like almost 120, kilos of olives done with a very fun and luxury way. And in the end, we even got it as a present. They say, No, thank you. You don't have to share the oil with us. It's all yours. So we gain twice the experience, the party, the gathering, and, of course, the oil. And so even you know, if you're hosting a luxury property, I'm sure that you have season and you have off season. And in the offseason is just as great, just people do not know about it. So a lot of us as travelers can enjoy amazing properties we didn't even dreamt of a little bit out of the season, and be a little bit curious and and and get there anyway, maybe not with the cheapest flight, but still to enjoy and to create an unforgettable memory. Wow.

Alex Husner  37:45  
Well, we would love to come over there and get to eat some of these olives. We put them in some martinis with you. On the bucket list for 2026 but thank you so much for coming on, Ryan. It's great to hear everything that that you're doing, and I know you've been working at this and for, you know, a long time. Like you said, it doesn't happen overnight, but with the right mindset and the right connections and business plan, you know, it's it's coming together, so it's exciting to see. But if anybody wants to reach out, learn more about a smiling house or Villa tracker or just get in touch with you, what's the best way?

Moriya Rockman  38:19  
So LinkedIn, Mariah Rockman, I'm answering every message. I promise. Welcome each one, each and every one of you to be in touch or Moriah 10 smiling house.ch, I just want to say one last word. I want to use this beautiful opportunity that you gave me here today to call to all the ladies, all the girls, all the women out there that that maybe want to get into the space of vacation rental industry, not necessarily to luxury. They want a piece of advice, please reach out. We want to see more of us on stages. We want to see more of us in the industry. This is natural for us. We have so much to give. The woman conference that you've been part of in Italy, and our dear Christina and the other ladies who are pushing towards it, we should give it a hand. And I'm totally reaching out to you to come and join us, and you'll get a lot of hug and embracing into into beautiful industry. And to you two beautiful ladies, I like to thank you again for having me today. Wonderful.

Annie Holcombe  39:37  
Absolutely enjoyed it. We enjoyed it. That was very well said. I think that we do need more women to step into their spotlight and to step into their purpose and their power. And the Women's Conference enabled a lot of people to do that and just be their true, authentic spouse, and it was wonderful, and hopefully it'll be twice the size next year, and it'll continue to grow. So I'm grateful that you brought that up and. We really appreciate you spending time with us.

Alex Husner  40:01  
Yeah, absolutely. If anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com and until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody. You.