Behind the Brand: How Homes & Villas by Marriott Bonvoy is Driving Partner Success

Alex Husner  3:09  
Welcome to Alex and Annie, the real women have vacation rentals. I'm Alex and 

Annie Holcombe  3:36  
I'm Annie, 

Alex Husner  3:36  
and we are joined by Jane Gavin and Keven Wishard with homes and villas by Marriott bonvoy. It's so good to see you guys today.

Jane Gavin  3:44  
Nice to see you. Thanks for having us.

Annie Holcombe  3:45  
Well, I think everybody knows the Marriott brand or the Marriott brand. I'm sorry. I'm still getting used to saying that correctly, but homes and villas is still relatively new and I but I think you guys have a really great backstory for each of your careers. Why don't we give little introductions, maybe starting with you, Jane, about your journey through hospitality. Yes,

Jane Gavin  4:04  
hi everyone. My name is Jane Gavin. I'm the Senior Director of Brand Marketing and guest experience for homes and villas. I've been with the team for actually just over a year, so still relatively new in my role and with this team here, but no stranger to hospitality. I was born and bred on the hotel side of the business, so worked on property and have come up through the ranks primarily with a marketing focus. So have had some operational experience, but quickly learned it's not my forte, and I'll leave that to the experts, but I headed up field marketing for quite some time, and then recently came into the homes and villas and short term rental industry, which has been great and very different way of thinking and really focusing on a tech platform and delivering on the guest experience from a technology perspective. So homes and villas is an incredible brand and has been a great team to work with over the last year.

Keven Wishard  4:56  
And I'm Kevin Bucha, nice to see you all, so I'm. Senior Director for global and continent operations. And what that means is everything that kind of keeps the trains running on time, that somehow touches what I do, been with the brand for five years, so not quite at the very beginning, but came on just as we were still putting the, you know, the wings on the plane, so to speak. But with Marriott, I just celebrated 32 years with Marriott. A lot of experience on the sales discipline side of the house, but then spent seven years in hotel operations before joining this brand. So and we're having a lot of fun.

Alex Husner  5:32  
Awesome. Well, it's great to have you both on we had Jenny Shea on the show a few years ago, and that was actually before Annie started working on on your team, and so obviously, we've gotten to watch very closely the progress that the platform has made and just what you've been able to bring to your members through this offering, which has been exciting. And I know for the clients that I represent, vacation home managers, I have a few that have just seen a lot of growth in the last couple of years through bookings that are coming from your members, which is super exciting to see, and a good differentiation from VRBO and Airbnb and all the ones that we always know. But to kind of kick it off, I'm just curious. I mean, what do you think is, what's kind of the defining position and difference with homes and villas compared to some of the OTAs that are out there for people who maybe aren't aware or haven't listed on the platform before?

Jane Gavin  6:18  
So I can kind of talk about just from a brand positioning perspective, and kind of one of the key differentiators. We're in a really unique position, because we, and you sort of hit on it, we sit under a global hotel company, so we're at this lovely like intersection of where hotel meets vacation rentals and vacation rental experiences. So being part of the married ecosystem, we've got the benefit of access to over 200 million members, which gives us a really nice customer base going into it. But then, of course, our brand in particular, our unique positioning, is this really curated portfolio of premium and luxury home rentals, and those are all vetted to meet Marriott's high bar for design, safety, cleanliness, and then, of course, reliability, which those 200 members have grown to love and trust. We also have this really unique positioning where our all of the homes on our platform are professionally managed by home management companies, right? So we call those our HMCS, and those are our fearless partners out in the market that really deliver on that elevated experience that our guests have come to expect, which we're so grateful for them in that regard, because they do an excellent job. Every home that is booked on our platform is managed by one of those partners, which I think is one of the key differentiators that we have right that's professionally cleaned and looked after throughout the guest stay, which certainly offer a sense of peace of mind for our guests who are staying with our partners. Yeah, I

Annie Holcombe  7:44  
wanted to ask kind of off of that. I think this is where Kevin, you play such an integral role in and it's the standards. And I think that that's something that Alex and I both been in vacation and around vacation rentals for 30 plus years, and so we've seen kind of the struggle for property managers to find the ability to compete in the hotel space. Because hotels, everybody knows what they're going to get when they go to a hotel. You know that you stay, stay whatever brand at Marriott, you stay in, you know you're getting a certain level of service. And with vacation rentals, it it had gotten to a point sometimes kind of hit or miss, so creating a level of standards that the consumer can understand when they book. I think that that's where you guys have come in and played a really pivotal role to help the industry out. So I was curious, from your perspective, and coming from the hotel side of it, what do you think those standards and what you guys are doing at homes and villas is doing to level up vacation rentals as a whole?

Keven Wishard  8:35  
Yeah, it's great question. I do believe there's a lot of people talking about quality, you know, quality of product, quality of service, and all that quality is driven by consistency. And how do you get to consistency is brand standards, right? And if one thing Marriott does really well on the hotel side is consistency, right? You know what you're going to get when you walk into a courtyard in Omaha versus a courtyard in Paris, right? So we sort of brought that same, you know, focus when we started into this business, and we think that just sort of, you know, just a baseline on, you know, the things that we want every home to have, not just from an equipment perspective, but then we also go into Things like, you know, service standards and guest expectations and how to resolve issues. So I think we are having an impact. I wouldn't, you know, say how broad of our impact is on, you know, the whole industry, but in our little world, I know we hear from our partners and couple examples, you know, our fire life safety standards, you know, are pretty significant, and those are global. So every bedroom, no matter what home you're staying in, has to have a smoke detector. Well, when you go overseas, a lot of those standards are higher than what the local authorities might require. And so some of our partners, that's one of those things that's like, Hmm, I'm not sure I can do this. You know, and some choose not to, but then some do, and when they do, they're starting to see a benefit for their own business in a variety of ways. And then also, these standards are helping our partners go back to homeowners and saying, hey, you know, this would be a great home for maybe the Marriott platform, but you you'll need to do this one thing or two things, and I think that's helping elevate that whole experience for them, in which we benefit and our guests experience. Yeah,

Alex Husner  10:30  
absolutely. How many total destinations are you in at this point?

Keven Wishard  10:34  
I know we're in 89 countries, or we're approved in 89 countries, 10,000

Jane Gavin  10:40  
destinations or cities worldwide. Wow,

Alex Husner  10:43  
gosh, that's a lot of charge. Yeah. And, I mean, are there any areas that you're not in, that you are you're trying to get into, or what does that process look like when you're when you're figuring out, like, strategically, where you want to go?

Keven Wishard  10:55  
So we are primarily, there's two areas where, in US, Canada, where, that's where our biggest portfolio is. And then you go overseas to Mia Kala, we're well positioned. Asia Pacific is still an opportunity for us. We are in in Australia, Vietnam, New Zealand, but that's where we want to continue to grow. How do we decide where we want to grow? Well, we we sort of, you know, lift from the hotel side, and then we, you know, we like to stay engaged. And know what the current trends on? You know where I guess wanting to go. We obviously don't want to wait until everyone has found that destination, and then we're just late to the party. But we also look for destinations that Marriott does not have a footprint. Probably the best place for us to be is where there is little to no Marriott product in that destination. Then we can go in and we can introduce our bonvoy members to this fabulous destination that maybe they didn't know about, or they've always wanted to go to, but now they can. So we kind of watch the trends. We try to stay ahead of the trends, and then we try to be there to help introduce those emerging markets. So

Annie Holcombe  12:05  
I think, Jane, this goes to a question that I think you could probably answer is, you know, once you've kind of selected those destinations and you've got the product, then it's about getting it out to the broader customer base. And you guys have the largest, you know, loyalty program globally, and it's and I can say I'm a member of it, and I love it, and I love my points, and I will do everything I can to make sure I get my points. But how are you utilizing the bonvoy membership to introduce them to sometimes it's a new product. I mean, they they've been very loyal to the hotel brand, obviously, for a long time, but now you're saying to them, we'll still go to a hotel, but you might want to take your family on a vacation to this destination, and we want to show it to you. So how do you how do you see that, like that cross platform marketing going Yes?

Jane Gavin  12:46  
Well, Annie, first, thank you for your membership. We appreciate it here that you love to choose points, as most of our guests do so, and with that, we know about 95% of the guests that check in with homes and villas or book on our platform, they are bomb boy members, right? So that is our our target customer base. We know that they're highly engaged, and they have a high intent to book with our brand, because they already have the trust that was built with the Marriott bomb boy program. But when we think about how we cross market, or how we drive awareness for homes and villas through the Marriott ecosystem, there's a few different ways that we do it. One of it is with the personalized outreach, right? So we use our first we have vast first party data, right? We know what our members like, and what they love, where they love to travel, and so we leverage our communications based on what those travelers interests and behaviors are. So for example, Annie, we know that you like to go skiing around the wintertime and you prefer Vail, Colorado. So what we'll do is we'll serve you up a list of luxury homes in Vail, but then also potentially serve up maybe Aspen because you haven't been there, or you have high intent or show interest in Colorado ski destinations, to try and drive that consideration to book with, with the home rental and typically speaking, of course, we execute this across email, but as we Look across like our full marketing journey within the Marriott ecosystem, you'll also see that we have placements within marriott.com if you're searching in Vail or in Aspen, you'll see we've got a banner there that helps drive that awareness amongst members who might not have ever considered a home rental or just weren't aware that that was one of the accommodation offerings through Marriott. Bomb boy gotcha,

Alex Husner  14:20  
and I think Annie likes to go to ski resorts, but I don't know that she likes to ski.

Annie Holcombe  14:28  
Annie does not ski, but I will, I will operate ski. I can, I can operate ski. So please stir me up those resorts

Alex Husner  14:36  
you weren't far off

Annie Holcombe  14:39  
ski in a home rental, right? There you go, exactly. I can watch everybody as they come in. That's nice and

Alex Husner  14:44  
warm with your hot chocolate. That's awesome. I looking at obviously you know a lot about your customers. What would you say is the ideal persona that you are targeting through the vacation rental marketing?

Jane Gavin  14:56  
Yeah, we have two very dominant groups that we serve, which. Is largely families or groups of friend travel or milestone type celebrations, but on the family side, these are often the Marriott loyalists that maybe is a parent who's stayed at one of our hotels for business travel and is now looking for that opportunity to redeem those points that we referenced earlier for a meaningful vacation with their family, or potentially like extended family through multi Gen travel. And they just love that peace of mind that comes with booking a Marriott through the Marriott brand. And then we, of course, also see the group and friend travel. So those are primarily millennials and Gen X. We know that these folks are seeking high value experiences and not so much value in its traditional sense, but they want value for their time and then for their travel moments, right? So they're looking for those opportunities to have the communal space where they can cook with their friends and amazing kitchen, relax, I'll pray, ski, and then connect, you know, with their with their friends while they're traveling. And in an area, a communal space or a connection point within a within a vacation rental. And one other thing too that we see, which is really interesting. You know, as we talk about we are part of a hotel brand, we also see that some of our travelers are doing what's like this hybrid type trips, where they're blending their vacation home rental within potentially a city or urban experience, where they're staying in one of our hotels, so traveling to Florence and staying at the JW Marriott, and then heading out to Tuscany and having a private home rental on a vineyard out in the countryside, right? So it's that blended hybrid travel between city and then kind of that countryside experience, if you will. Very

Alex Husner  16:37  
cool.

Annie Holcombe  16:38  
That speaks to me right now, that sounds Yeah, that sounds wonderful. So I wanted to kind of go back to Kevin, so you've identified these destinations, you have, you know, you have this tremendous pool of customers to bring to these destinations. But then it's, you know, you got to make sure you have the inventory, and you got to make sure you have the right inventory, and so that's where your team, and I can say, just working with your team previously, like, just the work that goes into this and the thoughtfulness that goes into curating these properties is something that I had never seen before, and it was so great to be part of that and just really see the care and the attention that is taken for the consumer, not just the bond boy, but just in general. So I wanted to kind of talk about the basic qualifications that a manager listening is thinking, I want to go on homes and villas. I know the Marriott name like I want to be part of that. What do you think? What are the things that they need to know, the things that they need to have? And then, what does that process look like for them to go through the curation process?

Keven Wishard  17:33  
Sure, so that's a great question. There's a lot of different ways that that can be answered, but we, obviously we start the first part of that is the partner themselves, right? So we do a lot of due diligence to make sure that that home management company is a company that we know is going to deliver not only a good product, but also a good service, right? We, we're going to do our due diligence by looking at the, you know, review scores on their own platform. You know, are they a financially stable company, etc. So that's, that's step one, and there's a lot of great partners out there like that. And then step two, then is, is getting into those brand standards. Now, when I say brand standards, a lot of people, you know, how many brand standards do you have? There's really less than 10, right? But they're, they're pretty comprehensive, and so we go through that thoroughly with our potential partners to see that, you know, are these, the things that you can commit to do your homes you know already fulfill many of these. And those standards are like fire, life safety, cleanliness, equipment and amenities, service and experience. And then we also get into to things that when things go wrong, like when a guest needs to be relocated, or, you know, if there's a service failure, what have you within that, you know, those standards are, it's just not saying a you gotta have a clean home, but we actually articulate what that means, right and what should not be visible, you know, like mold, mildew, etc, right? And then there's the curation process, and that's when we are actually looking at the inventory and making sure that the home itself, you know, is going to meet all of those standards. And many of them do, and then some don't. Then we give the opportunity back to the partner to kind of make some of those changes or adjustments, I will say, like we were talking before we actually, you know, started an interview, there are a few nuances to us. You know, that's just maybe our pet peeves, or what you might want to call a my like, an exposed box spring, right? That's a good example. Does that really change the overall guest experience, no, but from our perspective, it's the total package, right? And it's, it is sort of signals to the guest what kind of home they're getting, same with the curb appeal, right? We see a lot of homes that look great on the inside, but, you know, the front it. Experience right there from the curb to the front door is lacking. So we look at the total picture, and that's why we're different than any other platform, because we're not taking everything that's presented to us. Yeah,

Alex Husner  21:35  
How are you generating demand for these homes and what's, what's it look like from a marketing standpoint for the hotel portfolio compared to what you do with homes and villas?

Jane Gavin  21:55  
Yeah, that's, that's a great question. Thanks, Alex. I mean beyond you know the personalized outreach that we do through email and through our media. Of course, we're driving eyes to the site, right? We're thinking seasonally, where are travelers looking to book? Are we hitting them at the right time through our paid media? Is the content that we're serving relevant to the audiences that we're targeting? But then beyond that, once we get them to the site, how are we driving that conversion with the eyes we're driving to the platform, right? So we know that about little less than half of our bookings that come on our platform come with some type of points as part of the transaction. So we know members who are are booking are either looking to redeem their points or potentially, in some cases, earn and homes and villas is a great ground to earn points. So we certainly leverage a comprehensive promotional strategy that focuses on seasonal opportunity of driving demand into the right periods in which we're looking to to elevate potentially a market, whether it's a new emerging market or we just know it's peak summertime, and we want to start driving some eyes to to certain destinations within the platform. But then we also, you know, one of the many stages of the marketing journey is that inspirational, aspirational, discovery and so on our platform, if you haven't done this before, we have a really cool new tool on our platform which is generative, AI. So for anyone who's listening, I certainly encourage you to pull out your phone and go take a look. What it is, is it's this really unique way of coming up with an inspirational place to stay. So for example, users can simply describe what their ideal vacation is, so a spacious cabin for a multi family ski trip. Let's say that's dog friendly, because we all know we need to travel with our four legged friends, and also has a hot tub. And what's really great about this tool is then it surfaces up destinations, whether they're exactly where you were looking for in Colorado, or perhaps it's going to start to nudge you to go internationally and look at some of our international markets. And what's great about it is that it gives you the opportunity to plan out a trip without a very specific need in mind, right? You might just have the intent that you want to ski travel with a large group, and it can make these very diverse recommendations for travelers to book and stay. And really the goal is to reduce that friction and the decision fatigue that folks feel when they're planning travel. And it becomes a really interesting way to drive demand to the platform, right? It gives people a planning ground, but then, of course, ground to actually book their upcoming travels too. Could you talk

Annie Holcombe  24:19  
about the collections, because that was something that was rolling out last year, and it was just so fascinating to me. Because I think it was like when you really started to see some of these collections take shape, to see some of the unique product that was out there that maybe you really didn't realize there was that many unique properties out there. I know one in particular that always stood out to me was the glass house. I have actually talked to people that in Europe, that glass houses are like they're, they're becoming more common, and they're or the mirrored house, I think is what it is the mirror house, yeah, but that the mirrored house was part of this glass house collection. But that's becoming kind of a, just a, I don't know, a trend, that people are building these unique properties. And. So I think by you guys having this collection, it sort of was able to highlight that. But can you talk about how the collections kind of came to be and how you're kind of, it's not marketed separately, but it's in within the platform. It's actually called out different Correct? Yep,

Jane Gavin  25:11  
it is. That's right, yes. And that house that you're referencing, Annie, is based in Joshua Tree, Palm Springs area, which is, I believe, that one sits in our award winning design collection. So these collections were really built to group types of homes together that might have a common theme. So using ecolux villas, for example, there are these stunning homes in all corners of the world that might be a little bit more eco conscious or eco friendly. Or perhaps we have fabulously famous homes where one home was previously owned by Frank Sinatra. So these different types of homes have been grouped together based off of a myriad I think we have about 30 collections live on our platform today that really helps spark that, that wanderlust and simplify the planning process based off of a theme, right? So you want something, you want cabins and tree houses. So you know you want to go to a cabin, but you're not but you're not quite sure where the curated collection, which is hand curated by our team. So every home that's in there has been hand selected, right? We look through images the amenities of the home where it's located, and ensure that we're putting forth some of our best product on our platform under a theme that's very consumer friendly, right? And I think Annie, you sort of hit on it, right? These are also very Instagramable experiences too, or homes that really create some beautiful content for social which we know travelers love. So the curated collections, in and of itself, is its own Instagramable moment too, but the homes within it are really designed to help kind of spark that inspiration and maybe set someone off in a new destination that they hadn't been considered. Hadn't been considering, or potentially serve them up the glass home in Joshua Tree that they've been looking for, for that really unique, one of a kind stay. I

Annie Holcombe  26:49  
remember there was a property that was in Hawaii, and I had seen a show, I think it's on Netflix, and it was the world's most extreme vacation rentals or something. And they and they, they go to a destination and they show you kind of like, entry level, you know, budget friendly, and then then they show you one that's like, completely luxury. Like, if you ever had the opportunity to blow $40,000 a night, this is where you would stay. And it was this beautiful estate in Hawaii, and we were able to get that one in my time there. They were able to get that on the platform, and I remember seeing it come through. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is, like, the cool, like, the cool like, nobody else is going to have this, because this gentleman is not going to list this $70 million estate on just any channel, you know. So it's like, I think that's the cool thing is that there's these beautiful properties that people would never get the chance to be able to, like, access as a basic consumer. But now you can see it, and you can more. You can you can actually dream and maybe put together the vacation to go to some of these incredible properties.

Jane Gavin  27:43  
Yeah, and I think that the they certainly drive a lot of inspiration for, yeah, that like design forward type stay, which I think so many folks are really looking for, of just this really out of the box. If I'm going to take my one trip a year with my family or my friends, let's make it at a killer home with a water slide and maybe a lazy river and that's on the cliff. And really go go big with them. And our collection certainly position a lot of those, really, once in a lifetime, homes very nicely. Yeah,

Alex Husner  28:12  
I love it. I love it. Well, with all that differentiation between the $70 million home and then maybe a condo in Myrtle Beach or Panama City or beach home and Aspen. How do you maintain the guest experience and what sort of things are consistent across bookings, no matter where you book, with homes and villas.

Keven Wishard  28:30  
So what would be consistent no matter what you get? So 24/7 support, obviously, starter amenities, you know, high speed internet, premium linens and towels, every home is going to come with that. And then there's, you know, when you get into more specifics beyond that, you know, every home has to have a full kitchen. We're not doing studios. But in, in addition to that, you know, the other way we manage consistency is, then, you know, what did the guests think of that home after they've stayed, and that's where we track, you know, guest voice. You know, every guest gets a survey depending on their status with us, we don't over survey. You know, our elite members too much, but that's how we get feedback on each home to make sure that that home is living up to, you know, what we approved and what we thought it had. And so we use that then to figure out, you know, does that home stay on the platform? We also use that to figure out how is overall, that particular partner doing with all the homes that are getting surveys. And that's how we kind of help maintain the consistency from, you know, stay to stay, and figure out who's doing it well, and then maybe who needs a, you know, some additional help. I

Annie Holcombe  29:45  
think that's what's really great about your team, specifically, Kevin, is that the coaching that goes along and even, like with the account management team, it's it's you. If you have a problem with a guest, or there's a problem with a home, it's not that that's the end of a relationship. You want to coach them through it and say, like, this is how. You can solve this, and this is how you can respond to a guest and you're and that's what's great, I think, is, you know, you're able to use 100 years worth of Marriott experience on the hotel side and hospitality and that brand, and use that to be able to help people that maybe haven't had access to some of that deeper training. And I think that that's really, really helpful, and then kind of to the point of the standards you touched on it earlier, like the life safety stuff is so very important, and that's something that there's a dear friend of ours in the industry, Justin Ford, who focuses on safety within vacation rentals. And it's really unfortunately, there's a lot of stories out there about missed opportunities and areas where people just should have done the right thing, and they didn't, and there's been some tragedies, unfortunately. So I think, you know, educating people as they come on with Marriott, and understanding that these they're you're not doing this to be difficult. You're doing this because you want that experience to be the best possible experience it can be, and that everybody is safe, and that's what ultimately builds the trust, not just the trust that Marriott brings to the table, but the trust that that partner gets by being partnered with you, but off that I wanted to, like, touch on just thinking about, you know, moving forward, are there any trends that you're seeing, whether it be operationally or from consumers traveling and that is shaping the way you're looking to work with partners through this year and maybe on into the future. Yeah,

Jane Gavin  31:22  
I can, I can certainly speak from the consumer side, is we are seeing this really clear shift towards trust, consistency and then, of course, personalization, right? I think a consumer expectation now is, if I'm loyal to a brand, that brand should know who I am, right? So even within home rentals. Travelers want the unique charm of a vacation home, but they expect that hotel level, quality of service and quality while in stay. So we're trying to design for this expectation. So given that all of our homes are professionally managed, that's we're really trying to ensure that when the homes come onto the platform, they are meeting those standards, so we can deliver upon that expectation of trust and consistency, especially, and then from the personalization perspective outside of kind of tailored communications and our curated collections, another expectation we're seeing is that when folks check into home rentals, they also want that experience, right? So we're looking to our HMC partners, who do an incredible job of doing this, of executing some of those bespoke services that you get offered while staying in a vacation rental, like a private chef in home, or perhaps they have itinerary planning while staying in home. So we're really leveraging the expertise of our local partners to help deliver on some of those expectations of really curated experiences while in home, and we see that consumers are seeking that right. They want to live like a local, as they say, while staying in the vacation rental, and have moments that happen, whether it's in home or in the destination, that really deliver upon that. And our partners that we have are do an excellent job of doing that and servicing our guests in that way. And then, of course, you know, we want to ensure that we're building that long term loyalty and reinforcing why they chose staying with homes and villas. And so our guests are really booking for that trusted level of experience that they get with staying with a Marriott product, but then also the memories and moments that they create in the home and while on vacation, which is where our HMCS come in and knock it out of the park. Yeah.

Keven Wishard  33:22  
And I wanted to add to that, you know, another trend, and it goes back to what you were just saying, Annie, about the training. But the other trend is, you know, we're exposing a lot of our bonvoy members to these unique places and these homes. Some of them are in ancient cities, you know, Paris, Florence. So it's twofold. They're getting experience of staying in somebody's home or apartment, but they're also getting the experience that they're really living like a local, right? And this is not a hotel. Well, when you go into some of these neighborhoods, you know, you see the eclectic graffiti, you know, on the walls, or you you know, there's elevators, but they're not on the first floor. The elevator starts on the second floor. You know all these great things that make you know life interesting over there, but it's because it's been around many years. So we are trying to use those trends to help educate our partners about how do they communicate some of these things to our guests. But we're also using that to figure out, how do we then give our guests more information, call it market truths, or something of that nature, just so that you can enhance that experience. And there's no surprises, because they're great homes. They're just not a hotel, right? And they're going to look very different than maybe a home over here in the state. So that's another trend that we're seeing that we're starting to figure out, how do we we tap into well,

Alex Husner  34:43  
for anybody who's listening and they're interested and they want to know how they get their properties on homes and villas, maybe tell us a little bit about how that works.

Keven Wishard  34:52  
We have a great Contact Us page on our website. You can come to the very bottom of it. There's a. Links on there. If someone's interested in partnering with us, they can fill out a simple form. It goes to our development team, and then they'll follow up. And if we haven't spoken to him in before, you know, because we we tried to be proactive on that, we're happy to, you know, talk to new partners anytime. Excellent.

Alex Husner  35:16  
Well, very, very exciting. I'm sure a lot of people are interested after hearing this, and you guys have definitely maintained a very different approach. And I think it's obviously it's working, you know, and the proof is in the bookings that you're able to generate and the guests that you're able to reach that people would not be able to get in front of on their own. So really exciting to see. But thank you both so much for coming on today and sharing a little bit more about where you've been and where you're going. We're excited to continue to watch the journey. Thank you for having us. It was fun. Absolutely. Well, we will put the contact form link in the show notes, but Jay and Kevin, if anybody wants to reach out to you personally, LinkedIn or email, what's, what's the best way?

Jane Gavin  35:57  
LinkedIn or email, that's great. Okay, we'll put

Alex Husner  36:01  
both in the nutsed. If anybody wants to reach Annie and I you can go to Alex and Annie podcast.com and until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody.

Unknown Speaker  36:11  
You.

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