300th Episode Special: What’s Changed in Vacation Rentals and What Comes Next with Terry Whyte

AI Hype Meets Hospitality Reality

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The companies that undercapitalized on AI and figured out you're not going to be the winners.

Annie Holcombe 0:04

Somebody reached out to me with this offer was that, you know, I've had a thousand properties and I've automated everything and I'm using AI for everything and I don't have any employees. And I was like, how is that hospitality? You know, I mean that that is just so the antipity.

Alex Husner 0:16

People get AI and automations confused. The industry that we're in is a very process-driven industry, which lends itself to thinking that AI can help. But really, you know, that's automation solves a lot of that.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

The opportunity for our industry is massive because everybody is going to want into the vacation rental business. There's so much money to be made, and I think we're at we're just at the tip of the iceberg.

Alex Husner 0:37

Hey

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Alex Husner 0:38

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Episode 300 With Terry White

Alex Husner 2:18

Welcome to Alex Nanny, the real woman of vacation rentals. I'm Alex. And I'm Annie. And we are here today for a very special episode. This is our 300th episode of the Alex Nanny Podcast. And when we were thinking about who we would want to have on for this monumentous kind of occasion, immediately the name Terry White came to mind. So, Terry, thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

And it is my pleasure to be here for number 300. I'm looking forward to this.

Annie Holcombe 2:47

Well, well, Terry, I said this off camera, but when we first started and we were completely out of our minds, not knowing what we were doing and nervous about everything, there were three people that immediately were just the proponents of everything that we're doing. It was our dads and Terry. So as Alex said, it was a no-brainer to choose you to come back and talk with us. Um, you've been with us two other times, so this is three times. So you're a three-timer to the show and uh and and get the distinction of being our 300th guest. So that's super exciting. But before we get going, give our guests or our listeners just a little brief introduction. I think most people know you, but there might be some new people that don't.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I manage properties on Florida's Gulf Coast with Island called Anna Marie Island. I've been doing this before the internet, you know. So when I've seen what you guys have done, you know, with the way podcastings come, the way our industry in general has since COVID, you know, people would say it's probably accelerated it five years. I think it's closer to 10, you know, and having the voice, we talked about this off camera, having the voice of podcasting was really what made the difference in our industry too, you know, not just COVID and not being able to go to hotels and stuff like that, but podcasting probably played the biggest influence in that.

Alex Husner 3:53

Yeah, I I I agree on that. And I think, you know, the ability to be able to decimate a lot of information and keep people in the know has been incredible for our industry and many others too. And I think actually in our last episode that we had you on at that point, you one of you said that there was 3.9 million podcasts. I think, Terry, you had that stat. I'm not sure what it is now, but it's it's over 4 million.

Annie Holcombe 4:16

We looked at it the couple weeks ago. It's like 4.2 million. Yeah, it's insane. Yeah.

Alex Husner 4:21

Unbelievable. We've had you on at definitely very different points in our career and different times in the industry, I would say.

Scorecard On Tech Predictions

Alex Husner 4:28

And I think today we want to kind of look back on some of the predictions that you made and just get your take on where things are now. Because even when we met last in 2025, AI was still pretty new at that point, you know, and things have changed significantly since then. One of the first things that you had talked to us about when you came on in 2022, you told us that the future would be about doing more within one platform. And then in 2025, you said that the industry's obsession with the best in class tech stacks were delusional. So give us your honest scorecard. What did you get right? What were you to early on? And what would you revise today?

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Certainly AI has changed that, like nothing. And I don't I didn't see AI coming. I don't think anybody's seen AI coming the way that it was. I think if it wasn't for AI, it would that would have been accurate. I still think, you know, if you remove AI from the PMS, from the technology, like I know Boom's doing a good job. Journey was into it before, um, Boom was. Everyone's trying, like I I can honestly say that within the PMS, it really hasn't changed that much. But you know, it's still is it the same PMS as back then, let's say two or three years ago, four years ago, but they're still the best now. They are in the same way. As far as AI goes, yeah. I I really don't know what's gonna happen. It's it will change our world for sure, because it's limitless what it's capable of, but it no one's figured out yet what it's how to monetize it, what it is capable of. You know, is it bigger than the internet? Maybe I don't know. The iPhone is probably just as big to change the world, you know. I still back then, I still say penicillin um is bigger than anything that's ever happened in the world. So as far as AI, it'll change the world, but nobody's really figured it out yet.

Annie Holcombe 6:19

Yeah, it's a big hype right now, right now.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, and uh, but you know, a lot of companies you see the studies on MIT have to study, CNB CNBC News has done studies, like a lot of them are going back to human resources because it's just costing too much money, you know, and they're not they're losing money, they're not monetizing it, you know. So I I I think I think what was gonna see happen is like the dot-com bubble crash is once the crash happens, which I'm convinced is gonna happen, there'll be a lot of good companies come from the ashes, you know, whether it's through acquisition, some will just go away and there'll be mergers, you know. So we'll we'll figure it out. But as far as figuring it out right now, I don't think anybody's anywhere close to know what's gonna happen, what the future of AI is.

Annie Holcombe 6:59

Yeah, it's kind of anybody's guess. I feel like we interview, you know, two to three people a week, and every conversation from week to week is a little more in-depth or a little you know stepping backwards. And to that point, you know, about could be people going back to human. I know uh Starbucks is one of the bigger ones that they went all in on it, and then they're now they're going back to bringing humans involved. And I think the uh the one thing that seems to be common about it is everybody's seeing the technology's great, but it's kind of like what happened with the proliferation of technology and vacationals, all of a sudden it can be too much. And people crave human connection and post-COVID. I mean, that's definitely something that people are craving. And we seem to like AI wants to force us further away from that human connection. And I think that we just are are resisting that because we we like people and we're in hospitality. But one of the comments you had recently were uh mentioned that there was a, you know, like if an operator has about 19 tools, they can cover 80% of their stack actually now with like a PMS or a CRM. Curious as to where your take is, like if the PMS still is the center of operation or if the CRM is becoming that center of the operation. And then from that, do you think that an all-in-one technology actually is working right now?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Um again, I'll gotta I'm so glad you asked this question. Um, Alex, you you had mentioned there and I kind of got off track there. I said delusional about the all-in-one solution. You know, uh every PMS, and you've seen every PMS, they were advertising, marketing themselves as the all-in-one solution. And everybody was trying to be like to be fair, and you could see that was the direction that people wanted. It was driving operators and insane, you know, all the fragmentation. But AI. Have you ever seen anything more fragmented than AI? AI ask any operator how many pieces of AI they're using to get through a day. I'm I sit on this advisory board of this company. So we had a meeting like two two weeks ago, and this guy was he's a big property manager, really knows what he's doing, has thousands of properties that they're using trying to use AI. He said, I know for sure we have 17 different pieces of AI online. He said, I know it's more, but I don't know. Oh my gosh. But you know, I know for sure it's at least 17. So it's a you know, the whole industry was going towards this all-in-one solution. Now it's it's more fragmented than it's ever been.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So to answer that question, um again, when

AI Fragmentation Vs Simple Automation

SPEAKER_00 9:15

you remove the AI component from the PMS, I don't think the PMS changed at all.

Alex Husner 9:20

Yeah, and and I think, you know, we've talked about this before that people get AI and automations confused. And uh we're the industry that we're in is a very process-driven industry, which it lends itself to thinking that yes, AI can help because it is, it's the if this, that, whatever in a in a line of tasks. But really, you know, that's automation solves a lot of that. And I think maybe that's confused, and there's could be better uses of just true automations that get people to where they want to be and be comfortable with that, versus a lot of managers we talk to are still uncomfortable with AI answering for them, you know. What would be your take on that?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, for sure. And I think you know, it's it's good when things are going well, it's when you have a problem and AI and automations and triggers and stuff like that, they're great. Nothing really gets missed, you know, where the human, you know, can miss it. But if you have a problem and let's say you're at one of my properties or something and there's a problem going on, if you want to send a guest over the edge, let them know that they're talking to a robot and not a human, you know, and that's that's just not and that's not a fair thing to do to people, you know, to take their money and they want to talk to somebody because they have a problem. So it has its place, and the place is nothing gets amiss when you have triggers automation, you know, AI and stuff like that. But then that's when it stops and the human interaction has to take over.

Annie Holcombe 10:46

So you think that you know, in that Ryan, the thing that you could fully automate is everything on the back of the house. But then anytime you're having to interact with a guest, it needs to be a person.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

And make sure it gets to a person. The problem is identified, there's a there's a work order, something putting in place, but a human sees it and they follow up on it just to make sure that it's and to call some pick up the phone and call some and say, I'm very sorry that this is happening to you. I know you paid a lot of money, you know, we're gonna make this right for you. It's it's there's an this AI thing that you're gonna automate everything is just to me, it's craziness.

Annie Holcombe 11:18

Yeah. I I saw a post a week or so ago where uh and actually somebody reached out to me with the same offer was that, you know, I I have a thousand properties and I've automated everything and I'm using AI for everything and I don't have any employees. And I was like, I just how is that hospitality? You know, I mean, that that is just so the antithesis of hospitality. And then I talk about it a lot, is you know, the worry of like human trafficking that goes through these properties where nobody has eyes on it. And so it's just it's just ripe for that kind of behavior. Unfortunately, you know, the people, you know, we've had them in markets where I where I live and we've had markets where like people are turning them into meth houses and they're dealing drugs and and you know, just all the things that happen. And it's like I I applaud people for coming up with kind of like the thought of it, but at the end of the day, it hospitality is about the connection. So it is troubling to see people that think that that's the way we need to go. I hope that that's like becomes not the norm, but I think for some parts of the industry, people are trying to press that just as much as pressing the notion that it's a passive income business, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

So and I I think you know, we you know, we talked about just a few minutes ago, is trying to find the middle ground and companies are going back, they're going back to human resources because you know it's just not working the way they thought and expensive, like AI agents. You talk about expense, like it's more expensive to have an AI agent than it is to pay an employee.

Annie Holcombe 12:36

Which is interesting. That was the whole concept was supposed to be saving people money, right?

Alex Husner 12:40

The expense goes beyond the the tools. And I think you know, one thing that I've seen lately, more so with Clot actually than chat, but uh the hallucinations and the inaccuracies of things that it's pulling. And you know, what if people are just immediately assuming, okay, well, it's connected to all these different systems, I'm totally comfortable with it answering on my behalf. If it's answering an owner or a guest, I mean that you you still need to have some sort of oversight with most of these things and the cost of sending something that's inaccurate to an owner, it you know, that that's that's your trust is broken at that point. So the cost of bad AI is high.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah, the delusional rate of AI is is way too high. Yeah, we have to think it's gotta be figured out because it's just yeah.

Annie Holcombe 13:27

Yeah. What do you think in terms of like just in technology in general? What do you think technology providers are spending too much time, too much focus on, maybe like the raw focusing on the wrong problem where they actually should be looking?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

For sure, it's AI, but you know, I I think they have to invest in it. I think they have to figure it out because it's it's the future of our industry. Just like when you first started podcasting and the first time I was on it, we're kind of at that crossroads now. When when I was starting out, that was a time that you knew if you didn't adapt technology, you're gonna get left behind. This is a very similar time. It's AI now is is a big thing. If you don't figure it out, you're gonna get left behind. But you know, it's trying to figure it out. Is and I think we're at the same crossroads right now that we were when you guys started podcasting. When I started doing my research, you know, in technology, that if you don't adapt to it, you're you will get left behind.

Alex Husner 14:16

Yeah.

Where Tech Helps And Where It Hurts

Alex Husner 14:17

And so, Terry, you've you you've run your operation for a long time and you've got about 50 properties at Anna Maria Beach rentals. And you run your operation more like a very sophisticated, you know, hundreds of unit type of a company, but you've been in this industry for a long time and and you really have always kind of been at the the forefront of implementing technology in a sound way. But what are some of the things that you're seeing these days that you're liking, whether if you're using it or just other tools out there that that you're liking that people should take a look at?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

The um not really exchanged a lot of amount and tools. The best investment I ever made, and it kind of went in the opposite direction of AI and was um freezeway assist. I I insisted that a human pick up the phone 24 hours a day, whether it's a text message, whether it's a phone call, whether it's anything, that somebody is there to pick up the phone and talk and just say sorry or and make sure that I or a team member gets the message and gets to work. Or as far as new technology, I think I think our technology in our industry is pretty boring for the last couple of years. Nothing has really nothing has really happened. You know, we have a good technology, we have really good technology if you compare it to the hotel industry, which is older than their technology is a hundred times better than theirs. Um but as far as new technology, you know, I still my PMS, you know, I love my PMS. I love the other companies that I work with, and but really nothing's really changed in the last couple of years.

Annie Holcombe 15:47

With the the again, the proliferation of technology, where do you think people maybe are still wasting their money on on pieces of technology?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Bad technology, you know, not having the not having the best PMS. And I think I think it's pretty clear right now that um who the best PMSs are and the best companies working with the different PMSs. And uh, you know, I said this a long time. We haven't seen the bloodbath in the PMS industry, but I know it's gonna have to be. You know it's coming because they just can't survive. And you know, when you look at track, when you look at streamline, when you look at guesty, I I think it's pretty apparent, you know, those are the companies with the money. Two of them have been taught bought by private equity. You need the money, you know, you need to be bought because you need the money to move forward. And I just I just think that you know, you have to use the best technology out there, and it's pretty, it's pretty apparent who has the best technology and who doesn't.

Choosing 50 Doors Over 300

Alex Husner 16:43

One thing that we've been talking about a lot this year, and it plays into kind of the overall theme of the podcast, which we you know named behind the scenes the growth blueprint, is that a lot of operators are thinking, and mostly people that have gotten in it into it more recently, that you just need to add doors, you just need more inventory, more inventory. And a lot of them are building towards wanting to have a company that they can, you know, sell within a relatively short amount of time. But I mean, you've always stayed strong at the about 50 property mark. So how did you make that decision? Like why why didn't you decide you want to go have 300 condos down there?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

A lot of it had to do with my age. Like I'm I'm retired from General Motors. I never wanted to hire people that you know I had to put on the payroll and pay um benefits, you know, and stuff. So I was really happy. And I've never not did much in trying to acquire new properties. Most of it's just been word of mouth, you know, that comes to be in. The biggest thing for me is my churn rate. Like I basically no owners ever left me in like 30 years. Um, but it, you know, that's for a reason. That's just because the numbers are good. You know, if they thought if I did that, they would they would leave. But as far I I think it had to do with my age. And if I was younger and that was my only source of uh of income, you know, I would probably had to have grown. But one impediment that that really hurt me is uh managing remotely, not having an office on the island, not having, you know, so I think with that it would have been pretty easy to grow people just, you know, see your presence and stuff like that. But uh it a lot of it just had to do with circumstances and managing remotely. You know, it's very difficult to manage remotely and be have a present when you're not there.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Vacation

Sponsor: VacationFinder Marketplace

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Finder is hybrid OTA. We were created to empower professional property managers and give them the ability to own the guest relationship. Once again, we position ourselves as more cause-related than we do about focusing on profit at the end of the day. I'm Josh Thromberg, and I am the CEO of VacationFinder.com. Vacation Finder is exclusively for professional property managers. We require that they be local boots on the ground. Actual individuals are there in the destination that's able to provide customer service and solutions when problems arise. That helps us as vacation finder to really build and establish that trust, not only with property managers, but with the guests that we're trying to really look at vacation finder as their trusted booking source. For anyone that's a property manager that's out there looking to really focus more on a even a direct booking model, I think vacation finder is really an opportunity that they need to consider. We're positioned to be the ally to professional property managers in our industry. We want you to own that guest relationship so that you have communication directly with that guest the moment that the booking occurs. So you're the merchant of records on your own vacation finder. And that's been the vision since day one is how can we create this marketplace that's going to put professional property managers in the driver's seat? How are we going to create a marketplace that communicates to guests the value that comes with selecting a property that's managed by a professional property manager? What does that provide to them? And that is what we're trying to do is provide the best possible solution for both guests and property managers. If you love our industry, if you love your homeowners and the properties you represent and the guests that come to stay in your properties and you want to create an experience for them and you want to do right by all the stakeholders, then you absolutely should consider Vacation Finder.

Annie Holcombe 20:28

One of

Distribution Gets Bigger Than Ever

Annie Holcombe 20:29

the things that we've always talked to you about, and I've always loved having you as part of, is that you really are keen on distribution and you are have been an early adopter of channels. You and I were talking about, you know, you were kind of one of the first um adopters of booking.com in the US. And um I and I remember we had uh Alex and I did a panel at DARM a few years back, and I think it was like the first one we'd done with the podcast, and we had five different channels represented, and it weren't the big channels, it was some of these new tertiary type channels, uh boop boospoke ones. And you said to everybody in the room, everybody look at this panel. This is the future of our business, is is the distribution. Do you still, do you still feel that distribution is an important component and that the diversity of your distribution is just as important as all the marketing you would do, you know, for your direct business?

SPEAKER_00 21:17

I feel stronger than ever. When I made that statement, I probably didn't realize at that time. Like I don't think anybody could have seen American Express and you know, and all these other companies, airlines now getting into it. I still the the opportunity for our industry is is massive now, more so than it's ever been, because everybody is going to want into the vacation rental business. It's there's so much money to be made. And I think we're at we're just at the tip of the iceberg companies that are going to enter this uh industry. And I just think that there's so much opportunity there, but the opportunity is through just massive distribution. Yeah, to answer your question. I feel stronger now than I ever have. But it's opportunity in there. That's you know, it's pretty bright, pretty bright future.

Alex Husner 21:56

Yeah, I mean more more eyeballs you can get on your properties, the better, especially as direct bookings are getting harder and harder to come by. And I'm curious, Terry, if you've seen this, that has your maybe not well, has your direct booking percentage that stayed about the same or has it changed? And also has your website traffic changed?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Mine has stayed the same. I invest heavily in it. I consider my website a channel. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's very important to me. Um work very hard at it. Spend a lot on digital marketing, spend a lot on email marketing, you know, really focused on it. But um Alex to to to answer what you you hit again it's is going to be so much more difficult going in the future just because of what you talked about the the um the massive distribution that's going to enter our industry. And I think people are going to gravitate to the bigger companies you know even even now like how many times have I had an Airbnb rental you know and after they labor its verbal you know I do a really good job marketing to them you know I hope it gains your trust you know if you go back and you both with us directly and all this kind of stuff and educate them on how to do it. And they're still just comfortable going with the Airbnb because they feel comfortable it's been a good experience. They've never had like a bad experience or showed up where you know the property wasn't there it was a dumper you know or something like that. So the security that people have so Alex you know I couldn't agree more it is going to be incredibly more difficult than to maintain your direct bookings.

Alex Husner 23:26

Have you seen your traffic go down your organic traffic this year?

SPEAKER_00 23:29

No no it's it's really it's main it's main no no it's maintained uh it's probably it depends on the month you know but if if you say year over year it's um our direct bookings are up our traffic to our website is up quite like like not a lot.

Alex Husner 23:45

Yeah enough and notice even being flat or just slightly down you know a few percentage points that's that's impressive because I mean a lot of the companies that I've seen you know they're hit taking hits of 20 30% and and a lot of that's coming from the content that they they wrote for a reason both to get traffic but then also to use as a conversion point that we've talked about this in previous episodes of you know what to do in the area and the best locals places to go stuff like that. That's where you know the AI search and what's coming back is the you know their their results even if they're number one or two they're halfway or at the bottom of the page now. But that's that's great to hear. I mean that means that you're also being more proactive about driving more traffic and like being intentional. You know, I mean it's you you can't just do one thing and put it out there and think okay now we're gonna get a lot of traffic or now direct bookings are going to work. And I know you know this I mean marketing is a flywheel and it's only as effective as every part of the flywheel.

Direct Booking Flywheel That Works

SPEAKER_00 24:42

There's probably three components to that that I think that I could attribute to the success in one is blogging. Like so when I work with my digital company they like to do SEO and they all this kind of crap and I I said I don't care what you do. I don't care but I insist one blog a week three like there has to be Google's addicted to new relevant content there has to be at least one blog a week coming for that one thing I've addicted and I'm really adamant about this is leveraging our reviews. So you know in all our newsletters that go out in our digital marketing so every review that I get I send it to our digital team and I send it to our email marketing team and they have to use that in all of their whatever that they create. This garbage of people say they don't read nobody reads anything they don't read they look at the pictures you know and they that's that is just crap. That's garbage they can recite every one of your reviews they know your reviews like every one of them so that's critical important and then the third one is knowing your pricing like if you if you don't know your pricing and people are generally cheap by nature you know they see a property a dollar less you you know they'll they'll bucket um but your you your reviews will save you there and you have to know where you have to know that you're priced right because if you're if you're not priced right you're not you're gonna get hurt pick.

Why Loyalty Programs Keep Failing

Annie Holcombe 26:06

Yeah back on the kind of the on the distribution part talking about the new entrance to space that kind of ties into like loyalty and then when you were on with us the first time you were on with us you really predicted that you felt like loyalty programs were going to be something that was absolutely going to be key to the growth of the the industry. What is your stance on it now? Because I mean I I feel like everybody's still trying it and the ones that are succeeding are the ones that were already doing it on the hotel side or the credit card side. Like you said nobody really in in the vacation rental space has actually been able to figure that out and I don't think they're going to be able to just because of volume. But what is what is your stance on it now?

SPEAKER_00 26:43

I I I agree 100% with you. Yeah I I was wrong on that um not only in the vacation rental business business has nobody really been able to conquer it you know airlines they can't conquer it like how many times have they changed their loyalty programs just trying to figure you know trying to figure it out and no nobody's figured this out yet you know and I like I said I don't think they're going to be able to and a lot of things with loyalty programs and stuff like that like I just said about um if if there's a cheaper rate somewhere else and especially now with AI you just go into AI and say give me the best rate you know on Annabelle Allen from July 10th to 16th you know who cares about your loyalty program if somebody's got a better rate than you know I do a good job with marketing to my guests you know before they leave that you get and it's only a five percent discount like if you come back and stay with it like it's you get five percent that's that's been a good metric. That that's really helped me too and another there's two metrics of returning guests and that's you know you the they want to return but if if you're not generating organic growth you know your your product you're not gonna grow very fast. So even though you know you're getting repeat gas because you're doing a good job when you're hosting them but if you have no organic growth either not suggest yeah but as far as the loyalty program goes nobody airlines can't figure it out look look at Airbnb. How many times they can't figure it out and like who who is more in a position to offer like a loyalty program than Airbnb and they can't do it.

Alex Husner 28:09

Yeah and I think Expedia and Verbo has done a good job with that and and just seeing how bookings for you know verbo have increased in a lot of these markets I do believe it's because people are they're either using their points or they're booking through that so that they can use the points somewhere else. So you know that's and and and good for them. You know that's that's a good it's a good program they do they've developed but it is really hard for an independent property management company to come up with something that works you know unless you are multi-market like it's it's it's tough. But um I do believe that you know the main thing you need to at least be doing is what you mentioned of when a guest checks out, they're getting an offer to rebook for next year. And that's still a big thing. I mean in a lot of like the big beach markets and ski markets, you know, that that's you know that has dwindled to some extent that like not everybody's booking the same week every year is it was very traditional back in the day. But it still definitely happens. And you know one of the clients that I'm working with right now, I mean they're 40% ahead of where they were this time last year for for next year's bookings, which is great. And we've worked on some different tactics for you know what is the postday message if you're an Airbnb guest, if it's a verbo guest, if it's a direct guest, because it does need to be slightly different there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

And I'm curious do you offer the same at the 5% regardless of where they booked is that does that say that the same it used to be 10% I caught then I reduced it down to five percent yeah you know and I was because I was in a position and I haven't noticed any drop off but uh talking about channels there both Alex and Annie you had asked the question and Alex you said one per um Annie you had said or Alex sorry um verbo expedia I always complain that Expedia was always my worst channel ever and they have it has been my biggest Expedia or Virgo specifically Expedia okay just they are really you know they've been committed to it it has been my number one surprise channel and it is really doing well for me. Just just within this live chamber.

Annie Holcombe 30:12

Wow I think that speaks um there was an article today that FocusRight put out and it was and it had some stats in there about people about the consumer really wanting to have more choice. And I think it's just like we deal with that every day like you go to I mean Walmart Superstores is a great example. The reason that Walmart went from just being kind of like a drugstore with your basic home things to being the all things is they realize that you know the consumer wanted more and and people go to Amazon because you can literally get everything. And I think that that you know for a traveler that's the same thing. And so Airbnb getting into the hotels to me that was a no-brainer because they had lost clearly lost so much in these markets where they'd shut you know shut them down. But the consumer is at the end of the day they're the ones that are going to tell us what we need to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

And we can try all day long to tell them no you need to be doing this but they're gonna tell us and they at the end of the day they they rule so well then when Expedia started showing more verbal inventory on their website too that that was that helped yeah yeah that that that's that's been huge. For sure. Terry

Advice For New Operators And Risks

SPEAKER_00 31:10

what piece of advice would you give to somebody who is newer in the industry whether that's somebody with just a a few properties or they've got you know maybe more than a few but they're trying to figure things out what would you say is like kind of the the first things they need to be working on unequivocally it has to be your tech stack it has to be your distribution you know I think I think you'd be I think you'd be okay in this industry if you figure it out if you have a good tech stack if you have massive distribution I think that they're the first two places that I would start for sure. Quality properties we know we all went through this when we started like when I started I'd take any property just to get a property you know and probably well probably now that it hurts you more than it would help you you know so quality properties your tech stack and make sure your distribution is in place.

Annie Holcombe 31:57

Yeah well we always I always ask you to bring out your crystal ball um and give us Terry's predictions for the future but if you had to look three years ahead and say like this is what separates a property manager who's thriving for one that's simply just you know getting by and barely surviving what do you think that those factors will be guest communication you know just being a good business person in general I I don't think um it's gonna be interesting.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

I think we talked about this in the last podcast when the next recession hits which it's kind of looking like it's gonna be anytime even on the stock market's kind of booming right now it's probably looks like is is it even travel even going to be discretionary anymore like it was before every time we hit a recession that travel just fell off the face of the map now I now I can't I don't think it's going to I think it's just going to be as strong as ever but as if you look at the companies that have been successful in our industry I think you're still going to see the same model is uh is customer care, uh good technology. A lot of the older companies you know they didn't have distribution because they're passion they're generational companies that can pass down from one generation to the other but I think to be successful in this business customer service will be key for sure.

Alex Husner 33:11

Yeah and it's almost like you know the OTAs have really democratized booking vacation rentals I would say because it's you know when I I'm here in Myrtle Beach Market and I talk to you know some of the bigger companies that I used to you know work with back in the day and I hear that you know it's always they're always you know moaning about how you know things are down and everything else. And but then I talk to somebody who has one or two properties and they're showing me their calendar and they're totally booked all summer long. And it's like you know I think for some a lot of the bigger guys that's actually that's been a hurt because it's like it is easier to book these these smaller properties or these smaller host properties and they're just they're getting um you know more advantage in the algorithm because if if you're just listing on Airbnb or just Verbo, you know, you're gonna get you're gonna get prioritized. And not only that, but they're probably responding to reviews quicker, they're responding to messages quicker. I mean we would years ago I remember Andy we talked about this with um the Thanks for visiting gals about how you know it's a lot easier for an independent host to be responding to reviews versus a company with 500 properties. And and to that extent I think AI has helped for the ones that are implementing it because a lot of that can be streamlined. But I I also recently talked to an operator who he sold his company and he's bought other companies now and he's taking the stance of he's only putting the properties in Airbnb. They cannot be booked direct at all. Yeah and I said okay well that's that's interesting I'm curious to hear how it's going and I I asked him about a week ago for an update and he said it's going marvelously I mean they were invited to go to the there's some Airbnb event like a small event with Brian Chesky in California I think it's probably this week they're invited to go to it they want to hear their opinions on things and you know they've got premier hosts to the nth extent on there but what do you think about that strategy? Because it is kind of off the wall compared to what we've all known for years.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Very scary um and I think it works well in good times like this. Yeah wait for the first downturn to see and then and then too what happens you know you read these stories uh Airbnb like all of a sudden you wake up one morning and they removed you from the platform yeah yeah that's I don't know Alex that is the craziest yeah it is scary for sure.

Alex Husner 35:29

I mean it goes against the you know we all believe like don't put your eggs in one basket because there there is there's there's a lot of risk there and and really it's like in my mind it makes it hard to win more properties in your market to go onto your rental program when you're just doing one thing versus if you're saying you know you inv you invest personally a lot in your digital marketing and you're doing so many other things that are above and beyond what probably a lot of managers do. But it also shows to a homeowner that you know you are you've built your own pipeline there. I mean like you've built your own business funnel that you want to use the OTAs for sure and you want to be on them, but you would much rather have them come direct and and build that relationship.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

I I would never sleep at night if that was my business.

Alex Husner 36:12

If

Sponsor: Monarch Collective

Alex Husner 36:13

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SPEAKER_00 37:39

Visit

AI Will Not Be The Differentiator

SPEAKER_00 37:40

gomonarch.com slash partnerships your last question there about what would you do what what do I think two or three years down the road is the companies that kind of capitalize on AI and figure it out, they're not gonna be there they're not gonna be the winners.

Annie Holcombe 37:55

It's gonna be they're not yeah they're not gonna not they're not gonna be the winners it's it's gonna come down to custom customers you think you think if they someone goes all in so you'd be cautioning someone to go all in on AI because it's gonna take them down a bad path.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yeah yeah you know everybody's gonna be using AI there's their differentiator at that point even if you think maybe if you're doing a better job with AI than almost everybody else is I don't think that's gonna make you a better language.

Annie Holcombe 38:19

Interesting we all heard it here first and Terry's not been wrong in all the time that's the micro prediction of 2026 for sure.

Favorite Moments And Best Match Lesson

Alex Husner 38:27

Oh my goodness and Terry so as as we're looking I mean this yeah as we said this is the 300th episode but do you have a favorite episode?

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Is there any that come to mind or any guests we've had that like you had an aha moment yeah there is yeah oh for sure I was thinking you guys probably don't even remember this because it was when you first were starting it you had a you had a lady on she was a cancer survivor and she owned the McDonald's yeah she's lives in my mart in my town yeah yeah and then she remember and the margins were so small that everybody had to ketchup packets.

Annie Holcombe 39:03

Yeah yeah yeah that was and I remember we talked about that because you said you had fond memories of being of getting McDonald's French fries on your trips down from Canada.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Yeah and it's yeah I I really remember that one for sure. That's a you've had yeah you've had so many so many good ones I listened to like all of them and it's hard to like when I listen to other ones I listen to them like off and on like whenever I can kind of thing. So I'm easier for me to but you for you guys you have you've had so many it's it's hard but that one there.

Alex Husner 39:35

Yeah that's that's that's a good one. I put you on the spot on that but anyway and it's so funny too I actually just said this to uh my dad we were uh traveling and we went into a hardy's I think because the gas station bathroom was out of order so we went over there and then in order to use the bathroom we had to buy something so now what what started as a short trip off the road has now gotten a very full meal. So we're there we're trying to buy you know a Coke and an order of fries at Hardy's and um I asked for ketchup and they put for just one small order of fries probably 30 ketchup in the bag and I was telling my dad that story about the lady we had on the show um and like how that's you know it is sometimes and that's so relatable to vacation rentals too of like you know the the riches are in the niches and it's really in the margins. And I think we've we've had many people come on and and express similar things to that too of like you really have to be looking at your margins. You've got to be looking at your ROI on the different services and the things and tools that you use and that's where you can either really recover some money or you know actually even make more because you're tweaking things and you constantly have to keep looking at it.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

And you guys have really stood the test of time too you know um when you guys were starting out there were so many good podcasts in our industry there's there's really not that many left you know that's yeah yeah there's not that many that are worth listening to anymore you know and around that year you know 2000 2022 there was so many really really good ones and there's just not that many now.

Alex Husner 41:03

And it's surprising too because you know in in today's day and age more so than ever you know not everybody has time to go to conferences. And you know we hear this from the vendors all the time that it's like the return on investment has gone down and you know it's hard podcasting at least people can be driving around doing maintenance tasks or between properties and they can listen and I think that's been a been a key part of it.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

But there were some really good ones back then. Yeah I would say you know at one time I thought that going to conferences was the the single best education thing that you could do and then podcasting would be second. I don't know I don't know if it's I would say podcasting is just as important now we talked about this on uh just before we got on the air that um the last election where Trump got elected there they said it wouldn't matter how many millions he spent on advertising or whatever he did in in the election that podcasting would have the biggest influence on the election which it did and I think it's true in our industry now too.

Annie Holcombe 42:01

Yeah well we we certainly hope so we feel good at we feel good about what we where we're at um had a question for you kind of in closing um you know 300 episodes we've gotten a chance to kind of look back and go like oh those were pivotal moments for us and and the the core principle of the show was the aha moments that these technology partners and providers had within the space and so we've had a lot of aha moments through the podcast and in our own careers but just curious for you what have your aha moments been through your career the biggest change in my career and the thing if it ruined my life and it made me better was Best Match is do you remember Best Match when it came on?

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Like before yeah on Virgo on Burbo remember that yeah yeah okay so prior to prior to best match is I've been on like I was when I when it first came out I was like the earliest adopter to it and so you could pay I think it was like I started at 140 it was okay so by that time before Best Match it was I could pay $1400 a year had a couple good reviews you know some good photos and all my properties were on the first page you know and then I could use eight properties with one property to feed another eight. And then I just go click off all the time like it was the it was like the greatest thing ever and then they and they stopped that there was no more said there was no more you pay to be on the first page and stuff like that. And it was all done by you know Merit and Ability and if you had like bad reviews and you were doing like you're gonna get buried in the search results. And that's that's when I got really serious about the business that I was in. I checked I changed every like my tech stack everything to do with technology that was a changing moment for me right there.

Annie Holcombe 43:35

That was my uh but you stuck it out and play golf right we didn't it didn't ruin your golf game. I play golf almost okay want to make sure as long as you're as long as Terry stuck in this golf time that's what's important.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah but it was yeah it that really changed our industry where you really you had to be good at what you did. You couldn't just pay to be on the talk you had to be good at what you did.

Alex Husner 43:54

Yeah yeah yeah well that's that's a good story. I'm glad we asked we asked that one Annie

SPEAKER_00 44:00

You guys can spill the beans on what you're up to next.

Alex Husner 44:02

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've we've teased it out there a bit. It was on the first of the month episode, and I'm not sure when this one actually comes out, but this time soon. But we're, you know, we're really putting a much more concerted effort into growing the podcast. We've always been growing it, but there's so many things that we've always talked about as ideas, but we want to be able to bring those ideas into reality and build a community and build more ways to connect property managers with the suppliers in a in a way that is thoughtful and is helping them build beautiful businesses. And we just got back from Jamaica recently, where we went down and we did an on-site with Call Center Solutions and got to meet their team and see the whole huge and like very impressive operation being built down there. Um and we want to do more of those things because you know we want to be able to take the power of what we've built, which is a platform that reaches a lot of people and bring it to property management companies, bring it to suppliers, and just there's so many good stories to tell in this industry. And we just we want to be able to tell more of them and just find different ways to do it. So we're we're taking uh taking the leap and excited to see where it goes.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Go go to Amsterdam and go to booking.com.

Annie Holcombe 45:19

There you go. We need to go to we need to go to Amsterdam. Yeah, and and then to Alex's point, I think that it's you know, we want to we there's so many other mediums that we could be doing. So it's kind of like looking at us as more as a media company. So maybe maybe, you know, maybe it's we work with more podcasts, maybe it's we do more event or do events. I mean, we've had a lot of things that have kind of come up, but now that we both are kind of in a great place in our personal careers that we can focus the time and the attention on it. Um, so hopefully when we hit 500 episodes, we'll have you back and then we'll have you as a MC for our first show that we do, and we'll have you as one of the property managers we go visit and and all the things. Yeah, yeah. But um, yeah. But we can't thank you enough, Terry, for uh all the support and guidance. And you've provided mentorship with that out. I think intentionally doing it. You've been someone who I know I have always looked to for advice and I can ask questions. You know, you don't mince words, you tell people factually how you feel about things, and it's always pretty spot on. And like I said, you're very, very rarely wrong about anything, which is which is great. So you're a good barometer for the industry and where we're headed.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

You know, I've uh I've learned a lot, you know, from listening to you guys too. It's again it's very educational. So, you know, you get the best people in the industry on talking about technology and different things, and you know, it's uh I've learned a lot.

Alex Husner 46:39

Oh, well, good. Awesome. Yeah, I very much appreciate it. You never know. I mean, when you're starting something new that's a creative endeavor, you know, when you're putting yourself out there, it's always it can be scary, you know. And it's like, are we doing the right thing? And I know we've had that moments of that many times over the years, and it uh sometimes it's just hearing a nice word of encouragement or a comment on a post or a message, and that can really give somebody that that confidence that okay, somebody's listening.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

We do need to keep doing this, and I know that happened many times in the early journey parts of this, but when you guys came on right when our there was just so much happening concurrently in our industry that that time that you guys first started coming on and having the voice out there, but that they were the good old days of our industry.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Yeah, I know it yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Remember, technology was just taking off at that time. Yeah, right around 2000. There was a little bit in 2017, but 2018, you know, a lot of companies were born, and then 2019, and it really started to get interesting interesting, and then you guys start to come started coming on there. So that they were really they were they were the good old times of our industry.

Alex Husner 47:50

Yeah, we're we're bringing the good old times back as our plan.

How To Reach Us And Terry

Alex Husner 47:55

Thank you, Terry, for coming on. Um, if anybody wants to get in touch with you, what's the preferred method of contact?

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Terry at Anna Maryland Bee Trump. That's the easiest way to get hold of me. Thanks, thanks again, and good good luck.

Alex Husner 48:07

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. You'll be along for the journey with us, whether you like it or not. I have a feeling. If anybody wants to get in touch with Annie and I, you can go to alexandanypodcast.com. And if you're interested in hearing more about these plans that we have, we've just still kind of been teasing out what it really means. Um, please reach out. We'd love to talk to you about 2027 and where we're going with the show. So until next time, thanks for tuning in, everybody.